Abortion.

[CatherineM]

The problem with the rape exception is that if that is a requirement, every woman who wanted an abortion could say they have been raped. Planned Parenthood already coaches underage girls to lie about the age of their boyfriends, so that would be an easy next step for them.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921823' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:57 PM']There are laws restricting how long you can leave the pregnancy before having an abortion, so it would be a foetus not a child.[/quote]
[quote]2) “We now record fetal heartbeats at 14 days post-conception. We record fetal brainwaves at 39 days post-conception. And I don’t expect you to answer this, but I do expect you to pay attention to it as you contemplate these big issues. We have this schizophrenic rule of the law where we have defined death as the absence of those, but we refuse to define life as the presence of those.”
— – Sen.Tom Coburn, speaking to Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor at confirmation hearing, July 15, 2009.

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/politics/16confirm.html?_r=1"]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/polit...nfirm.html?_r=1[/url][/quote]


[quote]A new study found that unborn babies may start to develop memories as early as thirty weeks into a pregnancy, but ABC’s “Good Morning America” ignored the study’s potential impact on the abortion debate, especially concerning late term abortion.

Reporter Sharyn Alfonsi’s July 15 segment covered the pivotal study without even mentioning abortion. Anchor Chris Cuomo attempted to broach the issue during a follow-up interview but fell short.

Alfonsi touted the study, “Day by day, a fetus goes through remarkable changes. By 30 weeks, opening and closing their eyes. Making facial expressions. And now, a new study reveals, forming memories. Yep, barely three pounds, but already able to remember. For the study, researchers used a fetal monitor to make a buzzing sound against a mother's belly. The noise and vibrations startle the fetus and it typically reacts by moving. But with repeated applications of the buzzing the fetus learns its okay and does not have to react. And four weeks later, when the fetus is buzzed again, many don't react at all, because researchers say they now remember the sound.”
[url="http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/07/study-unborn-babies-can-form-memories.html"]http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/07/stud...m-memories.html[/url][/quote]

[tinytherese]

The following is taken from [url="http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=310"]http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php...amp;entryid=310[/url].

Q. Is it okay for a girl to have an abortion if she was raped?

A. A few years ago in the former Yugoslavia, a group of soldiers broke into a convent and raped a nun named Sister Lucy Vertrusc. As a result of the rape, she became pregnant. Sister Lucy was faced with a decision: do I keep this child, whose face will be an icon of the man who raped me? She chose life and said, “I will be a mother. The child will be mine and no one else’s. . . . Someone has to begin to break the chain of hatred that has always destroyed our countries. And so, I will teach my child only one thing: love. This child, born of violence, will be a witness along with me that the only greatness that gives honor to a human being is forgiveness.”[1] She knew that the baby did not deserve the death penalty for the crime his father committed.

Women who abort children who were conceived by rape often say that it took longer to recover from the abortion than from the rape. In general, post-abortive women often experience depression, and they are six times as likely to commit suicide than women who gave birth.[2] When a woman has been raped, has she not suffered enough emotional pain? Will she be comforted when the suffering of the rape is compounded with the guilt of knowing that she took her child’s life? Has she not been violated enough? Now is the time when she needs to be supported by and immersed in love, so that some good can come from the tragedy of the rape.

Aside from the emotional consequences, when a woman gets an abortion, she faces numerous health risks, such as perforation of the uterus, septic shock, sterility, and sometimes even death. This is no way to treat a woman who has suffered enough because of rape.

If you or someone you know is pregnant and unmarried, call 1-800-866-4666 to find a local crisis pregnancy center that can help. The people who work for these organizations will offer hope, healing, encouragement, and practical support—not to mention plenty of love.

Also, realize that thousands of couples suffer from infertility, and must wait years to adopt a newborn. So, by saying yes to life, a woman with an unexpected pregnancy can bring a lifetime of joy to such couples.
____________
[1]. Sister Lucy Vertrusc, letter to religious superior. As reported by Going the Distance, Envoy, January–February 2000, 7.
[2]. D.M Fergusson, et al., “Abortion in Young Women and Subsequent Mental Health,” Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 47:1 (January 2006): 16–24; Mika Gissler, et al., “Suicides After Pregnancy in Finland, 1987–94: Register Linkage Study,” British Medical Journal 313 (December 1996): 1431–1434.

[cmotherofpirl]

From Lil Red's post"
QUOTE
2) “We now record fetal heartbeats at 14 days post-conception. We record fetal brainwaves at 39 days post-conception. And I don’t expect you to answer this, but I do expect you to pay attention to it as you contemplate these big issues. We have this schizophrenic rule of the law where we have defined death as the absence of those, but we refuse to define life as the presence of those.”
— – Sen.Tom Coburn, speaking to Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor at confirmation hearing, July 15, 2009.

THanks Red!!!
This man is my new hero!!!!!!

[Varg]

[quote name='Selah' post='1921856' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:40 PM']As far as people go-we're against it.

As far as animals go-well, I'm against it [/quote]So you'd rather that someone suffered than had a quick and painless death and (according to you guys) went up into heaven and had a happy picnic time with Jesus and all his clouds? (this is about euthanasia, not abortion in case you're wondering)

[OraProMe]

The very word "abortion" makes me feel queezy.

[Varg]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1922005' date='Jul 16 2009, 07:51 PM']We aren't into murder at either end of life.[/quote]EUTHANISIA IS NOT MURDER. If someone wants to die then let them

Edited July 17, 2009 by Varg

[Varg]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1922617' date='Jul 17 2009, 07:53 AM']The very word "abortion" makes me feel queezy.[/quote]Like I said, I can understand that

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1922610' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:49 AM']So you'd rather that someone suffered than had a quick and painless death and (according to you guys) went up into heaven and had a happy picnic time with Jesus and all his clouds? (this is about euthanasia, not abortion in case you're wondering)[/quote]
We don't have the right to murder people at either end of life. Suffering can usually be controlled.

[Varg]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1922621' date='Jul 17 2009, 07:55 AM']We don't have the right to murder people at either end of life. Suffering can usually be controlled.[/quote]Denying the right to die is one of the cuellists things a human can do

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1922623' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:57 AM']Denying the right to die is one of the cuellists things a human can do[/quote]
There is no such thing as a right to die.

[Varg]

Well there should be

[cmotherofpirl]

If you want to discuss that topic start a new thread please and thank you.

[Varg]

That's no problem mate have a great day

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Varg' post='1922631' date='Jul 17 2009, 08:07 AM']That's no problem mate have a great day [/quote]

lol are you going to respond to any of these comments on abortion? just curious.

[tinytherese]

I noticed on facebook today that one of my friends became a fan of Planned Parenthood. It disturbed me.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Varg' post='1922610' date='Jul 17 2009, 08:49 AM']So you'd rather that someone suffered than had a quick and painless death and (according to you guys) went up into heaven and had a happy picnic time with Jesus and all his clouds? (this is about euthanasia, not abortion in case you're wondering)[/quote]
We believe that suffering can and does bring about good. See: Jesus.
[quote name='tinytherese' post='1922860' date='Jul 17 2009, 03:49 PM']I noticed on facebook today that one of my friends became a fan of Planned Parenthood. It disturbed me.[/quote]
I would have to hope if someone that I was friends with became a fan of PP, they truly didn't understand the organization or what its purpose is.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:50 PM']Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.[/quote]

Good question. Even if it is rare, this is definitely one of the most difficult scenarios to handle, especially when it comes to public policy and legislation.

Following the chain of events you set forth, the place to focus is this mother's decision to keep her child in spite of the circumstances of its conception. The fundamental question we need to ask is, do the circumstances in which a person is created change the dignity or worth of that person?

If so, then you get into the criteria that change a person's dignity or worth, and that's obviously very sticky territory.

If not, the answer is clear that a child conceived in rape deserves the same right be born and grow up as any other child, just as the children of poor families, black children, immigrants, and filthy rich kids all have a right to live.

The second point to clarify is that by giving life to her child, a mother is choosing to believe in hope and to believe that healing and good can come from even the worst evils in our world. If we don't believe this, what hope do we have? But if we do, this mother you're talking about can find healing from the pain of rape through her child and perhaps even consider herself fortunate to have the opportunity to love a child conceived in hate because it's helped her forgive and grow stronger in ways that she wouldn't have otherwise. This could prove a great encouragement to all rape victims, not to mention rapists who come to be convicted of their sins and seek forgiveness.

Of course, in this scenario, the child would value their life all the more, and perhaps find a unique identity in themselves because they're literally a walking testimony to good conquering evil. As an adult, he or she might even finally meet their biological father, which could be very healing for him.

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:50 PM']And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents? The child has a miserable life and so does the mother/parents. Women who get pregnant whilst still in education will have to sacrifice their social lives and their education. This, in my opinion, is not right.[/quote]

This one isn't as touchy as the rape situation. Yes, choosing to give life to a child involves sacrifice, but in life we learn and grow far more through sacrifice and challenges than anything else. It is nice to have a comfortable suburban home with a manicured lawn and all that junk, but plenty of children grow up with those things and would trade it all to have parents who care enough to set a curfew. In choosing life, parents give their child the one necessary element to grow up happy -- love -- and they'll find a way to take care of the rest. This is why we need communities, churches, and other forms of charity... we all experience hardship, but the real pain is feeling alone in the midst of it. Millions of people with children still have social lives and get an education. Children do not impede our progress in these areas, but they do give us even more purpose and reason to pursue them. After all, if we aren't raising and molding society's future, what good is improving it today?

[tinytherese]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1922866' date='Jul 17 2009, 03:56 PM']We believe that suffering can and does bring about good. See: Jesus.

I would have to hope if someone that I was friends with became a fan of PP, they truly didn't understand the organization or what its purpose is.[/quote]

Indeed. It's ironic because this summer I'm doing volunteer work for an abstinence education organization in my home town and we discuss "the enemy" in the office quite a bit. It's absolutely sick how they actually want to have fourth graders and even KINDERGARDENERS go through sex ed. and the Q and A section on the planned parenthood sites about sex are just plain sickening- really personal questions and some that we suspect that Planned Parenthood might have just disguised as questions from teens that were really their own questioins. I've also seen this one commercial about their group being played on tv lately.

My little brother went to preschool with one of the kids of the head man at Planned Parenthood in my home town. And it's a Catholic school. He isn't Catholic though. It boggles my mind how he can perform late term abortions and then come home to his two small children. Well, I'll be praying for him and his family. I found out from one of my co-workers that when young girls go in for a pregnancy test that they lie to many of the girls telling them that they are pregnant when they're not. Then they go have an abortion and the clinic still performs it on them even though no baby is in her womb. That's how they make even more money. How very sad. Just think of the health risks and emotional and psychological pain when there wasn't even a baby. I told my mom this, who knows that man at Planned Parenthood and she wasn't convinced that he would allow that to go on, that he seemed to be such a man of honesty and intergrity. She also never even heard of FOCA until I told her about it in that conversation.

[Norseman82]

Rape or incest does not make the baby any less human, nor does it make the baby feel any less pain as the suction machine rips him/her to shreds.

The mother can put the baby up for adoption if the baby brings up memories of the rape.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Norseman82