Resurrexi Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1928973' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:11 PM']Shouldn't modern Protestants have the same opinions and beliefs of Luther?[/quote] No, no-one should follow any of the beliefs of Luther that were condemned by Pope Leo X in the bull [i]Exsurge Domine[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1928973' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:11 AM']I wonder how many Protestants realize how far off the path they have gotten? It amazes me the difference between Luther's attitude and current Protestants. Shouldn't modern Protestants have the same opinions and beliefs of Luther?[/quote] No, Protestants believe in Sola Scriptura, not Sola Luthera. Point being, Lutherans today do not believe what Luther himself taught, just like Methodists don't believe everything John Wesley taught and Baptists don't obey John Calvin's every word. They believe in holding everything accountable to Scripture, so those things which Luther, Wesley, or Calvin taught that are now rejected have been rejected because they are judged to be incompatible with Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1929082' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:46 PM']No, Protestants believe in Sola Scriptura, not Sola Luthera. Point being, Lutherans today do not believe what Luther himself taught, just like Methodists don't believe everything John Wesley taught and Baptists don't obey John Calvin's every word. They believe in holding everything accountable to Scripture, so those things which Luther, Wesley, or Calvin taught that are now rejected have been rejected because they are judged to be incompatible with Scripture.[/quote] Sola Scriptura is incompatible with Scripture. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/hans+zimmer+%26+james+newton+howard/track/why+so+serious%3f+(album+version)"]Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard - Why So Serious? (Album Version)[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1927160' date='Jul 21 2009, 07:21 PM']Martin Luther said, "We concede—as we must—that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God’s word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received holy scriptures, baptism, the sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?" Deep down Protestant theologians know we have the truth, and it hasn't changed. They just don't like to think about it because they are too busy trying to be everything to everyone. If my choice is popular or right, I'd rather be right.[/quote] You have no grounds for such generalizations. My grandfather in one of those Protestant theologians and I assure you he does not believe that Catholic Church is secretly right, nor does he compromise his intellectual integrity because he's busy trying to be popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1929344' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:48 AM']You have no grounds for such generalizations. My grandfather in one of those Protestant theologians and I assure you he does not believe that Catholic Church is secretly right, nor does he compromise his intellectual integrity because he's busy trying to be popular.[/quote] My great-grandfather was a Methodist-Episcopalian minister in Kansas. I was not trying to say that they secretly believe that the Catholic Church is right, and they are consciously leading people down the wrong path. I truthfully believe that they believe as Luther did that the Catholic Church was handed the truth. They think though that somewhere along the way we fell from the truth, and they picked it up for us. I have listened to several former Protestant ministers who are now Catholic talk about what made them realize they needed to convert, and to a person, it was when they studied the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. That's when they realize that the Church today is as it was then, and has the fullness of Truth. I don't know your grandfather, but many of the mainstream Protestant denominations have embraced the idea of inclusiveness and diversity to the point that they have in the last couple of decades changed tenets of their faith that were solidly in place for several centuries. I have no other way of putting that into words but to say that they have given up on their own truth for the sake of popularity. Sometimes words simply fail me in trying to explain concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1929086' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:48 AM']Sola Scriptura is incompatible with Scripture. [/quote] Well, good luck making that case with a Protestant. I'm was explaining why Protestants today believe differently from the founders of their traditions. I hoped it would be helpful to you in understanding Protestantism so you would cease to believe in false premises. [quote name='CatherineM' post='1929467' date='Jul 23 2009, 01:44 PM']I have listened to several former Protestant ministers who are now Catholic talk about what made them realize they needed to convert, and to a person, it was when they studied the teachings of the Early Church Fathers. That's when they realize that the Church today is as it was then, and has the fullness of Truth.[/quote] I imagine Fundamentalists are more ignorant of Church history, judging by the nature of their beliefs. It seems to me that most Evangelical theologians and pastors today are quite familiar with the Church Fathers, early monasticism, martyrs, etc. Reformed seminaries are covering all this material in their Church History classes. Of course, they interpret history in a way that favors their doctrine. As I said before, Scripture is the standard to which everything is held, which means if an Evangelical encounters something in Church history that they believe is contradicting Scripture, they will remain faithful to their interpretation of Scripture. The challenge is working around that somehow, but I consider it a potentially fruitful challenge on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1928911' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:43 PM']Not every old woman plays bingo. I was raised to play poker. My 4'10" grandmother used to greatly enjoy taking money off her WWII veteran sons in law. She would just laugh, and the Iwo Jima veteran would storm out of the room. My dad would look at me and say, "your mom's going to kill me." He started staking me to the game when I was 9-10. He figured if I lost he could explain it to my mom as a good teaching lesson.[/quote] It's not about being old, it's a joke about the irony of discussing Church teaching on gambling when it uses bingo as a fundraiser. Edited July 25, 2009 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1931796' date='Jul 25 2009, 03:26 PM']It's not about being old, it's a joke about the irony of discussing Church teaching on gambling when it uses bingo as a fundraiser.[/quote] I got the joke. Our parish paid for a new church with bingo after the former one burnt down without adequate insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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