Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1926091' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:52 PM']Which also speaks to the same end that I was moving towards -- the Church's traditions change, and I believe you are seeing one right now with receiving communion. It started in the hand, and it's moving back.[/quote] We have no idea how Communion was received during the apostolic era. During the late patristic era, it is indeed true that Communion was received in the hand in many places; however, there is no evidence that this was universal. The modern practice of Communion in the hand found its roots in disobedience. The indult was originally intended for those places where Communion was already being distributed in the hand illicitly. Thankfully, many people today (especially within the extraordinary form and reform-of-the-reform movements) are now realizing that Communion on the tongue--in the words of Archbishop Ranjith--"better safeguards the sense of reverence." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1926088' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:49 PM']I just pray the norms become the norms again. This will be upsetting to hear but I also pray that Ora is not recieving communion. I pray it and state it because of my love of Christ which is higher than my love of man. Praticing sodomites can not take communion.[/quote] UM WHAT THE........... What on earth does that have to do with the thread topic? This is what I meant about every conversation being turned into something about my homosexuality. This came completely out of the blue and is not related in any way to the original topic. Why would you even bring this up? Seriously. edit: Not that it's any of your business but no I don't receive communion. Personally, because I don't regard homosexuality as sinful, I don't see any impediment. However out of respect for the magisterium I don't. Also, if you want to pray for me then please pray for Gods Will to manifest itself in my life not that I be kept away from the Holy Eucharist. That doesn't seem like a very Christian prayer to me. Edited July 21, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1926116' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:15 PM']I understand that you are the exception and that there are thousands out there like you. God bless you. I just hope it's penetrating the youngin's head that there needs to be exceptions for some of God's people.[/quote] Do you honestly think that I don't know that there are many people who are physically incapable of kneeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 And I get ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1926138' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:44 PM']And I get ignored.[/quote] How did I ignore you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Res-When you break out 500 or 1000 year old documents, is your first reason to simply inform, or is it to impress us with your knowledge or perhaps your piety? Knowledge of Latin doesn't make you a better Catholic. I wish that I had the time to devote to academic endeavors that you obviously have, but I have other things I have to do like meet with the gas company so they can replace the meter, go to the doctor, to rehab, iron my husband's dress shirts, etc. You know, life. When I have that kind of free time, I usually spend it in simple prayer or volunteering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1926141' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:46 AM']How did I ignore you?[/quote] How many times did I post on this page? Exactly. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ok, where to start with this... [quote name='OraProMe' post='1926046' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:19 PM']Thank you! I just wanted to know the pious motivation behind it. When I read the phatmasser who said they used to kiss the host as a kid I actually said aloud "that's beautiful".[/quote] Ora was asking a question of his fellow brethren in curiousity, as I understood it. Not to debate. [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1926088' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:49 PM']I just pray the norms become the norms again. This will be upsetting to hear but I also pray that Ora is not recieving communion. I pray it and state it because of my love of Christ which is higher than my love of man. Praticing sodomites can not take communion.[/quote] I am shocked. Saddened. And, frankly, disgusted. This is one of the most uncharitable posts I have ever read on this phorum. I love Jesus Christ, and so does Ora, and Rex, and Red, and SMM...and on, and on, and on. Speck and plank...speck and plank. It is one thing to perform a spiritual work of mercy by admonishing sinners, but this is neither an admonishment nor performed with any semblance of mercy. You PRAY that people do not receive Christ??? Why don't you just pray that they die in a plane crash while you are at it? I rarely feel this level of anger on Phatmass, and rarer still do I express it. But, in the spirit of those works of mercy, I think you need to spend some time in prayer in regards to your own soul. Practicing hypocrites might perhaps rethink presenting [i]themselves[/i] for the Eucharist, also. [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1926123' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:26 AM']We have no idea how Communion was received during the apostolic era.[/quote] BINGO! Someone, get Rex a piece of cake. After having said this, I will give my personal position on the matter. 1. I receive on the tongue. I do so out of a personal reverence and fear. I am afraid to touch the Eucharist because it seems too holy for me to do so. This is my personal choice. As a convert I was not taught to receive in the hand as most here were, so for me the decision was made based on my personal experiences. I was largely self-catechized. 2. Rex's (and others) position that reception on the tongue is the liturgical norm is correct. 3. Reception on the hand has become the practical norm, and is permitted in most cases. Therefore all who do so, so long as they receive with the intent of reverencing and consuming the Host, participate in Communion in a perfectly licit manner. 4. I obey the Church. If She says take this way or that way, I will do so without question. People might desecrate the Host by handling it improperly, but I must believe that there are probably people who commit sacrilege every day by piously kneeling and receiving a Host onto a tongue which has not confessed. If most Catholics spent one tenth of the time on their own souls as they spend arguing whether or not to chew counter-clockwise, our Church might be in a better position. I'll be here all week. Make sure to tip your waitress. *climbs off soapbox* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1926156' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:05 AM']Res-When you break out 500 or 1000 year old documents, is your first reason to simply inform, or is it to impress us with your knowledge or perhaps your piety? Knowledge of Latin doesn't make you a better Catholic. I wish that I had the time to devote to academic endeavors that you obviously have, but I have other things I have to do like meet with the gas company so they can replace the meter, go to the doctor, to rehab, iron my husband's dress shirts, etc. You know, life. When I have that kind of free time, I usually spend it in simple prayer or volunteering.[/quote] I don't find a quote from a document unless there is a need to inform someone about a particular matter. It isn't even logical to claim that someone could be trying to impress others by his piety by quoting a document since, since whether one can read has nothing to do with his level of piety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1926156' date='Jul 21 2009, 02:05 AM']I wish that I had the time to devote to academic endeavors that you obviously have, [...] When I have that kind of free time, I usually spend it in simple prayer or volunteering.[/quote] Don't you devote a lot of time to academic endeavors? I thought you were in theology school. [quote name='CatherineM' post='1926156' date='Jul 21 2009, 02:05 AM']When I have that kind of free time, I usually spend it in simple prayer or volunteering.[/quote] Are you bragging about how well you spend your time? I think spending free time reading old Church documents or learning Latin is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' post='1926132' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:39 PM']UM WHAT THE........... What on earth does that have to do with the thread topic? This is what I meant about every conversation being turned into something about my homosexuality. This came completely out of the blue and is not related in any way to the original topic. Why would you even bring this up? Seriously. edit: Not that it's any of your business but no I don't receive communion. Personally, because I don't regard homosexuality as sinful, I don't see any impediment. However out of respect for the magisterium I don't. Also, if you want to pray for me then please pray for Gods Will to manifest itself in my life not that I be kept away from the Holy Eucharist. That doesn't seem like a very Christian prayer to me.[/quote] I am sorry my brother but it is indeed related to this topic. You are the original poster, the topic is about the Most Holy Eucharist. A person not aware that you are a proud sodomite may get the false idea that you are in good standing with the Church. When in fact you are not, and are in open rebellion against Her. Sodomy is one of the most vile and wicked sins before God, as long as you deny that fact as long as you partake in that sin yes I will pray that you do not profane the Most Blessed and Most Holy Eucharist. I will also pray that God's Will be manifest in your life and you do not continue to reject it. Again if I come off hard it is because I have more love and respect for my Lord than for any man. To put it simply you are not in good standing with the Church, you can not act as if you are in good standing. Catholics deserve to know that you are not. Typically this is why some members are labeled with "don't rep the pope.' So as to not mislead them. No I do not believe you deserve that tag because you suffer from SSA but because you publicly state that sodomy is not immoral is not a sin, when in fact it is and one of the worse sins before God. Again I'm not going easy on you, I am a man treating you like a man, with respect, but more respect to God. I hope you understand. Edited July 21, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1926163' date='Jul 21 2009, 01:17 AM']I don't find a quote from a document unless there is a need to inform someone about a particular matter. It isn't even logical to claim that someone could be trying to impress others by his piety by quoting a document since, since whether one can read has nothing to do with his level of piety.[/quote] Rex, fwiw, I think I understood what you were getting at with the post, because I know that your primary motivation is to maintain reverence for Our Lord at His Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1926093' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:53 PM']Whoa, off topic. You didn't quite quote anything about communion in the hand [/quote] Communion in the hand seems similar to the other examples cited under the general principle that Pius XII mentioned at the beginning of the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1926170' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:23 AM']Don't you devote a lot of time to academic endeavors? I thought you were in theology school. Are you bragging about how well you spend your time? I think spending free time reading old Church documents or learning Latin is cool.[/quote] Oii, come on now. I think Catherine's trying to say that there is more to the faith than canon law and old papal bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1926170' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:23 AM']Are you bragging about how well you spend your time? [/quote] It actually seemed a little bit like that to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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