I'm Too Dumb To Be A Christian...

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote]QUOTE (CatholicCrusader @ Apr 1 2004, 04:50 PM)
You heretical religion makes those claims... 


??? [/quote]

Sorry. I didn't make it clear to whom I was responding. That was to lumberjack, not you.

Also,
[quote]CC,

Dude, I admire your furver for the True Church. But there are charitable ways of evangelizing.[/quote]

Calling a spade a spade is not uncharitable, contrary to popular opinion. Just because I call his religion what it is (heretical) does not make me uncharitable. Every Catholic for 1900 years would have said the same thing up until this new post-Vat. II idea of tolerance and "light talk" that is not harsh to any liberal whose feelings might get hurt. In any case, not calling his religion heretical is like calling a black person "African American", or even worse, a "person of color", or like calling a fat person a "person of size"...political correctness is ridiculous...

God bless.

[Brother Adam]

what about calling a black person a nigge*? Is that okay too?

Edited April 1, 2004 by Brother Adam

[mulls]

i'm a heretic, fine, i embrace it.




but you BETTER explain that "african american" reference immediately.

[mulls]

i'm labeling that post one of the dumbest thing i've ever heard until you explain it.

[Jake Huether]

[quote]Calling a spade a spade is not uncharitable, contrary to popular opinion. [/quote]

Actually, it depends. If it would hurt someones feelings and repell them from the Truth, then calling a spade a spade might not be the right tactick.


You can call a spade a spade more than one way, without saying it's a heart.


[quote]Just because I call his religion what it is (heretical) does not make me uncharitable. [/quote]

My comment was in regards to the overall tone of your posts, not just that one. Although to flat out call someones religion heretical without explaining why is a bit uncharitable.

You would percieve it as uncharitable for a Protestant to call you a heritic. Although you know you are not, according to him you are. Well, we know that Protestantism at it's root is heretical. But to leave it out there without an explenation - and directed at one person (as if that person themsef was heretical)...

A person might embrace a heretical idea withough being a heretic. They are merely misinformed.

We are here to learn and to teach, not to slash and burn.



[quote]Every Catholic for 1900 years would have said the same thing up until this new post-Vat. II idea of tolerance and "light talk" that is not harsh to any liberal whose feelings might get hurt. [/quote]

This right here says a lot about your agenda. Vat.II was inspired and valid. The Pope is a man of God, and is wise beyond most other Popes / leaders.

Ask yourself, do you call their religion heretical for your glory or for God's?


[quote]In any case, not calling his religion heretical is like calling a black person "African American", or even worse, a "person of color", or like calling a fat person a "person of size"...political correctness is ridiculous...[/quote]


No, not calling his religion heretical is like not calling a black person a black person. Um.. since you wouldn't be calling it anything, you aren't necessarily giving up your stance or your understanding of the hereticalness of their religion.


Again, you don't have to call a spade a spade in order for it not to be a heart.


You don't have to get defensive. I just noted that your tone was a bit uncharitable. If I observed it, odds are someone else might have too.


If you see that I am uncharitable, please let me know. I want to grow in humility and love.

In Christ.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 1 2004, 05:15 AM']In order to understand I must:

-learn Greek and Hebrew and Latin

-obtain the correct manuscript/text

-know where 2,000 years of commentaries are

-learn the correct exegetical requirements

-be trained in apologetics

-excel in hermeneutics

-have the appropriate measure of The Spirit

-comprehend the mysterious and esoteric

-learn to dissect intricate interpretations

-have the annointing of prophetic revelations

-obtain special spiritual insight glasses

-stop thinking for myself...

(so I can make a spectacle of myself)


[topic stolen from another site, but OH SO TRUE ... ][/quote]
Matthew 18: 1-4

[b][u]The Greatest in the Kingdom[/u][/b]

At that time the disciples approched Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, [b]"Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kindom of heaven.[/b] Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom heaven. And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me."

(Bold added by me.)

God Bless
Jason

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Apr 1 2004, 04:50 PM'] You heretical religion makes those claims... [/quote]
You will not bring souls to the Catholic Church this way.

God is love, so we must show love!

I know you are defending the Church, but a little less name calling will bring all of us closer to God.

God Bless
Jason

PS. I noticed this is the second or third time you have posted such a statement.

Edited April 2, 2004 by Jason

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Apr 1 2004, 04:50 PM'] You heretical religion makes those claims... [/quote]
That wasn't needed..

[cmotherofpirl]

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Edited April 2, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote]but you BETTER explain that "african american" reference immediately.
[/quote]

OK..do you know what African American actually means, not just what it stands for but what the words actually mean. African American: a person who originally is from Africa but is now an American (also seen as in Japanese American).

1) Most black people aren't from Africa...they are from the US

2) I guess that makes WHITE people from South Africa "African American" too, so why don't we start calling them what they are--African American, not white...

See, it doesn't really make sense. The most "correct" terms I think would have to be "Negro" and "Caucasian", but I don't think anyone minds if you use white/black. No black person I have ever talked to about this WANTS to be called African American...in fact they all hate it, as far as all those I know. The white leftists do so much crying about it that anyone who is black is just as sick of hearing it as I am.

Also, about being "uncharitable"...Our Lord flipped tables in the Temple. Was that uncharitable? He called people devils many times...was that uncharitable? Our had long discourses "degrading" the pharisees by calling them hypocrites, was that uncharitable? Our Lord is Charity...of course none of that was uncharitable, so CERTAINLY me calling a protestant religion a heretical religion (just as any true Catholic would from AD 33-1960), is CERTAINLY not uncharitable....

God bless you, and be happy you belong to the one true Church of Our Lord.

[CatholicCrusader]

Oh, and if you are going to call black people African American, then I should be called "caucasian european american"...and you can't say "well their relatives are from Africa" because all of our relatives are from the Garden of Eden, I guess we're all "Middle Eastern Americans", huh?

God bless.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I haven't read the whole thread because I just wanted to say that I disagree with the first post.
The people who have had the deepest understanding of the things of God and of Christ are the simple and the humble saints like St. Francis. There are countless uneducated, simple lay people who through prayer and humility grew in the love of God and became saints. The earlier chapters of the Imitation of Christ talk about this.
I would rather be humble and ignorant of the things of this world, yet truly know Jesus Christ and His love and be set free from a multitude of opinions. Knowledge without love is nothing, and without love and humility one cannot approach the wisdom of God.

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Apr 2 2004, 03:33 AM'] Oh, and if you are going to call black people African American, then I should be called "caucasian european american"...and you can't say "well their relatives are from Africa" because all of our relatives are from the Garden of Eden, I guess we're all "Middle Eastern Americans", huh?

God bless. [/quote]
CC,

Your zeal is admirable. But you are totally missing the point.

We aren't saying that you should call their religion the Truth.

It's like, why can't you call a black person, a person. Do you NEED to say "black". You don't need to say African American either.


We all know what Protestantism is. We know what they reject, and what certain denominations accept.


Jesus flipped over tables when they were desicrating the Temple.

No non-Catholic here has "desicrated" Phatmass, so there is no reason to go flipping over tables or stamping out "heresy".


This IS a Catholic Phorum. Which everyone is aware of. If Bruce, or any non-Catholic, is here, they are here to learn and to dialogue.

There is a time for flipping tables, and oh, they have (we have had to give the boot to certain people who didn't respect the rules).

But now is not the time.


SHOW them that their religion is heretical. Don't tell them. Show them.

Telling someone that they are fat, if they are fat, is uncharitable. Telling someone who has a disfugured face that they are ugly, even though it may be true, is very uncharitable.


Jesus would agree that Protestantism is a heretical religion. But he wouldn't tell a person who was looking for the Truth to "leave your heretical religion".


Jesus never called a Pharisee a liar, that didn't already know he was a liar in his heart. The reason Jesus could call the Pharisee's vipers, etc. is because they knew that they were out to "get" Jesus!

But tell me, did Jesus tell Mary Magdalene, "stop being a filthy prostitute"? Or did he say, "sin no more"?

There are tacktfull ways of conveying the Truth.

You are becoming very defensive, and it would be a good thing to think about why?

And I don't know why you keep interjecting your opinion of pre / post Vatican II. That is quite uncharitable too. As if no one after Vatican II is truthfull or militant in regards to their faith. Mother Theresa was certainly pre Vatican II and post Vatican II. Can you show me any of her statements, pre Vatican II where she calls the Mustlims or Hindu's "heretical", where the statement is addressed to them.

God bless you, and may the peace of Christ fill your heart.

[cmotherofpirl]

For every hour you spend trying to "convert" people, spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament discussing it with Jesus and praying for those people.

[Dave]

CatholicCrusader, it's possible to be right and yet drive someone further away from the truth. Do you want to lead people to the truth or drive them away from it? I know the answer to that question is the former. But consider the following ...

When Catholic missionaries have come to foreign lands and converted non-Christians, have they ever said, "Convert, you heathens!"? No!

When the apostles spread the Gospel, did they ever say, "Become Christians or go to hell!"? No!

[theculturewarrior]

Here we go...

Not just heresy but race too! As they say in Texas...YEEHAW! Edited April 2, 2004 by theculturewarrior

[mulls]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Apr 2 2004, 05:33 AM'] Oh, and if you are going to call black people African American, then I should be called "caucasian european american"...and you can't say "well their relatives are from Africa" because all of our relatives are from the Garden of Eden, I guess we're all "Middle Eastern Americans", huh?

God bless. [/quote]
THERE'S BLACK PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE ROOTS IN AFRICA, THAT'S WHY THERE MUST BE A DISTINCTION.







ignorance is bliss eh?

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Apr 2 2004, 08:56 AM']I haven't read the whole thread because I just wanted to say that I disagree with the first post.
The people who have had the deepest understanding of the things of God and of Christ are the simple and the humble saints like St. Francis. There are countless uneducated, simple lay people who through prayer and humility grew in the love of God and became saints. The earlier chapters of the Imitation of Christ talk about this.
I would rather be humble and ignorant of the things of this world, yet truly know Jesus Christ and His love and be set free from a multitude of opinions. Knowledge without love is nothing, and without love and humility one cannot approach the wisdom of God.[/quote]
Amen brother!

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 2 2004, 09:34 AM'] For every hour you spend trying to "convert" people, spend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament discussing it with Jesus and praying for those people. [/quote]
Amen cmom!

[Sojourner]

If I may briefly interject on the racial terms conversation, journalistically speaking, "black" is the preferred term, according to the Associated Press Stylebook. We're only supposed to use "African-American" in quotations or in the names of organizations, or if it is the term individuals prefer to use to describe themselves. In those cases, we respect the wishes of those groups or individuals to choose this term as a descriptor of their heritage.

With that said, and getting back to the original post, I agree with Laudate as well. Except I did read the entire thread, and I think it's sad that it devolved the way it did.

Edited April 2, 2004 by Sojourner