Infant Baptism

[Resurrexi]

I would like to add this quote from the [i]Code[/i] to what I said earlier:

"An infant of Catholic parents, indeed even of non-Catholic parents, may in danger of death be baptised even if the parents are opposed to it." (CIC, can. 868 § 2)

Edited August 3, 2009 by Resurrexi

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1936766' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:25 PM']"It (The Roman Church) teaches. . . . . that the souls . . . . . of those who die in mortal sin, or with only original sin descend immediately into hell; however, to be punished with different penalties and in different places." (Pope John XII, [i]Nequaquam sine dolore[/i]: Denzinger-Schonmetzer 926)

"Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds" (Ecumenical Council of Florence: Denzinger-Schonmetzer 1306).[/quote]


Original Sin MUST be removed. AMen. Point? Noone ever says that everybody with original sin on their soul has it removed. You read your thinking in to these passages. Christ can certainly remove the OS at the instant of death for whatever reason he may see fit and that in my mind would not contradict the passage you have quoted.

[Resurrexi]

The passage implies that there are some people who die in original sin without mortal sin.

Only a person not having use of reason can die in original sin without mortal sin since the invincibly ignorant who are saved by seeking the truth and doing God's will receive a baptism of desire:

"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity" ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1260).

[White Knight]

I'd like to believe even though human beings are given Free Will throughout life, we have to reach that point before we can even choose ourselves, weather or not we reject God, I think God in His Grace would show mercy to an infant "baptized or not" especially if that child dies, before having an "personal choice" to freely accept God or reject God, they haven't reached that point yet, their lives, parents have to make the decesion, aleast until they can make the choices themselves. The Church recongizes three forms of Baptism.


The Baptism of Water and Spirit "The Normal method."

The Baptism of Desire, the intention of being Baptized, but un able to accomplish it before death.

The Baptism of Blood, the very act of dying for the faith "usually Martyrdom" the sheeding of Your Blood giving Your all to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Blessed Trinity, Accepted especially if the circumstances make it impossible for you to be baptized in Water or Spirit. The Theft of the right side of Jesus who died on his cross is a prime example, Luke Gospel gives us a glimpse of that.

[size=4][u][b]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/b][/u][/size]


[b]1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.[59] He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.[60] Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.[61] The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."[62] Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.[/b]


[color="#FF0000"][b]1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"[63] allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. [/b][/color]

[Katholikos]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1935867' date='Jul 30 2009, 06:01 PM']But, to be completely honest... this is a time when the Mormon doctrine on the afterlife appeals a lot to me. They teach about a place that those who never heard the Gospel can go after death. Kind of like a spiritual prison or something. There they can be taught the Gospel and can choose to accept it. If they do, they go to the third & lowest level of Heaven. If they don't... well, it's off to Hell with 'em.

I mean, I find a lot wrong with that, but at the same time.... it does account for these types of cases.[/quote]

I posted a link to the Mormon theology of Heaven and Hell in the Debate forum.