Luke 2

[Archaeology cat]

OK, I've been talking to someone on FB who says that Mary sinned by questioning God when she says "Son, why have you treated us this way?" (paraphrased). In my mind, she's simply showing her concern as a mother, but this person insists that she's sinning because she's implying God mistreated her. How do you answer that?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1941751' date='Aug 6 2009, 01:32 AM']OK, I've been talking to someone on FB who says that Mary sinned by questioning God when she says "Son, why have you treated us this way?" (paraphrased). In my mind, she's simply showing her concern as a mother, but this person insists that she's sinning because she's implying God mistreated her. How do you answer that?[/quote]


Wouldn't that be contrary to God's attitude towards Job's much more severe questioning?

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1941751' date='Aug 6 2009, 02:32 AM']OK, I've been talking to someone on FB who says that Mary sinned by questioning God when she says "Son, why have you treated us this way?" (paraphrased). In my mind, she's simply showing her concern as a mother, but this person insists that she's sinning because she's implying God mistreated her. How do you answer that?[/quote]

I agree that she was just showing motherly concern. Both Mary and Joseph had been looking for 3 days for Jesus. I think I would be very upset that I'd lost Him, especially when God had entrusted His Son to you and your husband.

In my Bible, which is the New American Bible for Catholics, it says this:

[quote]Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety.[/quote]

I really think it depends on the translation

[url="http://biblebrowser.com/luke/2-48.htm"]http://biblebrowser.com/luke/2-48.htm[/url]

[Nihil Obstat]

Translation seems like a pretty big factor for that verse in particular. I mean, it sounds like she said it kind of harshly with that translation, but that was 2000 years ago and in a completely different language. Subtleties of language could tend to be buried a little bit.
My theory is that how it sounds to us is not how it would have sounded to the young Jesus.

[Archaeology cat]

feel free to weigh in on the [url="http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=26921&post=519004&uid=5584629838&post519004=#topic_top"]thread[/url], and thanks.

Yes, Hassan, I was thinking of Job, as well.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[Archaeology cat]

The guy still insists that any questioning of God is a sin, even if the person continues to follow God and is just asking "why". He also insists that Mary is implying that God wronged her. Really, I'd love it if someone would step in on that thread.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1941790' date='Aug 6 2009, 04:45 AM']The guy still insists that any questioning of God is a sin, even if the person continues to follow God and is just asking "why".[/quote]

Not accepting God's will is a sin. Not understanding God's will is not a sin. Who of us always understands fully why God does what He does? It's not a sin to question and ask for clarity, as long as we accept it in the end regardless o whether we understand why or not.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1941792' date='Aug 6 2009, 10:56 AM']Not accepting God's will is a sin. Not understanding God's will is not a sin. Who of us always understands fully why God does what He does? It's not a sin to question and ask for clarity, as long as we accept it in the end regardless o whether we understand why or not.[/quote]
That's pretty much what I said, but the response I keep getting is that Mary was implying God had wronged her, and, in his eyes, that's automatically a sin because it, to him, shows a lack of faith on her part. He tried to justify that with Romans 14, but that passage speaks of faith in regards to dietary practices.

[CatherineM]

That section also mirrors the 3 days he spent in the tomb. It was also a time of fear of loss. Her relief on seeing him was like Mary's at seeing the risen Lord.

Anyone who has been a parent, and "misplaced" their child for any length of time, knows that feeling when they find them. You don't know whether to hug them or spank them first.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1941959' date='Aug 6 2009, 05:09 PM']That section also mirrors the 3 days he spent in the tomb. It was also a time of fear of loss. Her relief on seeing him was like Mary's at seeing the risen Lord.

Anyone who has been a parent, and "misplaced" their child for any length of time, knows that feeling when they find them. You don't know whether to hug them or spank them first.[/quote]
I hadn't thought of the 3 days in the tomb until getting into this conversation, actually. I don't know, maybe this guy has a hard time understanding it because he isn't a parent, but I can immediately relate to it.

[Era Might]

[quote]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lama sabach-thani?" that is, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

--Matthew 27:46[/quote]

[Katholikos]

Mortal (deadly, serious) sin requires (1) grave matter, (2) full knowledge, and (3) complete consent. Mary's reproach was the spontaneous expression of her pain as a Mother and in no way qualifies as "sin."

Is your correspondent Protestant? This smacks of personal interpretation of the Scriptures without consulting the Church who was the Agent of the Holy Spirit in writing the New Testament and forming the Bible. It's a do-it-yourself interpretation. IOW this is his (or her) OPINION, pure and simple. Your correspondent's interpretation is also an attack on the sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Peace be with you, Katholikos

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1942022' date='Aug 6 2009, 06:32 PM']Mortal (deadly, serious) sin requires (1) grave matter, (2) full knowledge, and (3) complete consent. Mary's reproach was the spontaneous expression of her pain as a Mother and in no way qualifies as "sin."

Is your correspondent Protestant? This smacks of personal interpretation of the Scriptures without consulting the Church who was the Agent of the Holy Spirit in writing the New Testament and forming the Bible. It's a do-it-yourself interpretation. IOW this is his (or her) OPINION, pure and simple. Your correspondent's interpretation is also an attack on the sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Peace be with you, Katholikos[/quote]
Yes, he's Protestant, and he's definitely trying to attack Mary's sinlessness.

[Katholikos]

So ask him (or her) why his opinion should be accepted when there are other conflicting and competing opinions with exactly the same authority as his -- none.

"Sin" requires full knowledge and deliberate intent, which are definitely missing in this situation. One cannot sin unintentionally. To prove his case, your correspondent would have to show that Mary [i][b]knew[/b][/i] she was offending God and did it anyway.

[Archaeology cat]

Thanks. I'll see how it goes. But not tonight, as I'm tired.