Mobs, Intimidation, And Deceit At Town Halls

[Fidei Defensor]

[url="http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/08/12/mobs-intimidation-and-deceit-at-town-halls/"]http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/08/12/mobs-...-at-town-halls/[/url]

Before the spin starts to take hold on the consciousness of Americans, it is important to review what has happened recently at these town hall meetings to discuss potential health care reform in America.

Right wing groups that have previously been throwing Tea Parties received astroturfing instructions from FreedomWorks to [b]disrupt town hall meetings[/b] hosted by Democratic congressmen. This leaked memo was exposed on Talking Points Memo, and included such excerpts as:

[indent]– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, [b]opposes the socialist agenda of Washington[/b].”

– Be [b]Disruptive[/b] Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, [b]stand up and shout out and sit right back down[/b]. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”[/indent]

There are many videos on YouTube and other websites displaying the results of these calls for disruption. The result of these unruly crowds of people shouting others down and causing a ruckus had another effect.

FreedomWorks likely figured if they could cause enough of a disturbance, it would stop everyday folks from showing up to these town hall meetings to have their say. This would not only silence dissenting views, but further increase the ratio of protesters to ordinary citizens at these discussions.

The counter reaction to this intimidation was of course, blue collar folks who work for a living showing up to stand up for their rights and ready to stand up to trouble if it came their way. It seems now that the Tea Baggers were ready for this step as well, as their quick pouncing on the scuffle in St. Louis demonstrated.

For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, right wing outlets and internet activists have been yelling out that a ‘bunch of union thugs viciously assaulted a black conservative’. The truth is that Kenneth Gladney was involved in an altercation, but only after he punched Reverend Elston McCowan, another black man in the video that gets up holding his shoulder.
Ironically, Mr. Gladney doesn’t have health insurance, and despite this being a short, minor scuffle, later decided or was convinced to go to the hospital. He came to a rally the next day in a wheel chair to ask for donations to cover his medical expenses, although it is suspicious that he was fine in the video and is in a wheel chair the next day.

Sort of reminds you of the Ashley Todd incident last fall, doesn’t it? She was the McCain worker who claimed to be mugged and physically assaulted by a 6′4 black Obama supporter after he saw a McCain bumper sticker on her car. She was the young woman who had the backwards B carved in her cheek. The same thing happened back then, media outlets and conservative internet users were all over this story before the facts actually came in.

As it turns out, she made up the whole story. Of course when this came to light, suddenly they claimed she was working on the Bob Barr campaign, and later the rumor mill claimed she was actually a plant by the Obama campaign.

This incident in St. Louis has caused the right wing propaganda machine to react in the same frenzied way. They are now constantly trying to shift the focus of conflict to ‘union thugs’, trying to paint a picture that these blue collar folks work for Al Capone, that they are brutes, that they are anything other than bus drivers, teachers, and nurses standing up for their rights.

Further, the astroturfers have given direct instructions to the Tea Baggers to bring their cameras to record these events to record the confrontations. It’s almost as if they are deliberately trying to provoke a violent reaction to use for propaganda, as this altercation in St. Louis demonstrated.
The ultimate goal of these astroturfed protests was likely to energize the ‘new new conservatives’ as represented by the Tea Party regulars, while taking the wind out of the sails of the progressive movement for change that was so instrumental in electing Obama last fall.

Fortunately for America, it appears as if their tactics are starting to backfire, as more and more mainstream media outlets and independents are recognizing these things for what they are: a distraction. [b]The mobs, intimidation, and deceit at these town halls go to show one thing very clearly, they would rather change the subject than actually talk about real health care reform.[/b] These underhanded means only go so far.

[KnightofChrist]

Yes, yes, yes, their all a bunch of unamerican, racist, mobsters, political terrorist, unintelligent, nazi, kkk, wackos. At least according to the leaders of the Democrat Party.

[rachael]

Lol. Both sides of PM have resorted to low-level bickering on the issue.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1947345' date='Aug 12 2009, 05:29 PM']Yes, yes, yes, their all a bunch of unamerican, racist, mobsters, political terrorist, unintelligent, nazi, kkk, wackos. At least according to the leaders of the Democrat Party.[/quote]
No, they're being dishonest and deceitful.

Why is it that whenever liberals protest conservative initiatives, the talking heads bash them for being "unamerican" and essentially everything you just said, but if the conservatives do it, it's considered patriotic and indicative of nation wide sentiment? I call bull

[KnightofChrist]

I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.

Hillary Clinton (D) btw she was yelling this to the top of her lungs...

And there are many other similar quotes from other leading Democrats that use to think that this kind of dissent was patriotic.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1947348' date='Aug 12 2009, 07:33 PM']No, they're being dishonest and deceitful.

Why is it that whenever liberals protest conservative initiatives, the talking heads bash them for being "unamerican" and essentially everything you just said, but if the conservatives do it, it's considered patriotic and indicative of nation wide sentiment? I call bull [/quote]

If right wing talking heads do they are just as wrong as the leaders of the Democrat Party who now attack private citizens with being "unamerican" and worse.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1947349' date='Aug 12 2009, 05:33 PM']I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration.

Hillary Clinton (D) btw she was yelling this to the top of her lungs...

And there are many other similar quotes from other leading Democrats that use to think that this kind of dissent was patriotic.[/quote]
I don't think it's unpatriotic or unamerican to disagree with or debate the ideas of the administration. I think it's unpatriotic and unamerican to make up lies and shout simply to make a scene, instead of actually talking about real issues.

That's exactly what's happening with all this talk of "death panels" and "euthanasia." No one actually believes this stuff is going to happen and yet the minority of loud mouths think that if they convince people that these things will happen, the reform will fail. How about actually disagreeing with things that actually exist for once?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1947354' date='Aug 12 2009, 07:36 PM']I don't think it's unpatriotic or unamerican to disagree with or debate the ideas of the administration. I think it's unpatriotic and unamerican to make up lies and shout simply to make a scene, instead of actually talking about real issues.

That's exactly what's happening with all this talk of "death panels" and "euthanasia." No one actually believes this stuff is going to happen and yet the minority of loud mouths think that if they convince people that these things will happen, the reform will fail. How about actually disagreeing with things that actually exist for once?[/quote]

Calling people names like that will solve absolutely nothing. It will only serve to cement their beliefs.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1947358' date='Aug 12 2009, 05:40 PM']Calling people names like that will solve absolutely nothing. It will only serve to cement their beliefs.[/quote]
Pot, meet kettle.

I wasn't calling names, I was using descriptive words.

[BG45]

I would call unpatriotic being nearly striking a United States Senator and screaming that revolution is brewing...but that's just me, and probably Senator MacCaskill after her last town hall meeting where it happened. We are given a wonderful freedom in this nation, the freedom to disagree with our leaders and to make our opinions known. We are given the freedom to demonstrate peaceably as to this disagreement of opinion.

The way violence keeps popping up in town halls [b]is unAmerican[/b]. Do I feel violence in town halls is unpatriotic? Yes I do feel that expressing one's opinion through violence is not patriotic, when we are able to go and have civil discourse. I personally have no problem with people being disruptive to voice their opinions, because if a politician is of any caliber, they can deal with that. I once was privledged to be at an event with Tom DeLay ® where a woman had such an outburst that went on for ten minutes, and he actually stopped security from removing her. He was willing to hear the dissent and address it, because he recognized that dissent can be patriotic, and the opportunity to hold one's ground amidst screaming fanatics makes a very powerful point.

But who am I? I'm just as happy to witness protests regardless of who is in office, within reason. Because a calm protest, even some disruptive (but non-violent) ones show that we as a nation have not lost our fires and passions for our freedom of speech. However, violent protest strikes a cord of barbarity that is not covered in our Constitution; though it is a living and breathing document that continues to change over the eras, I sincerely doubt it will ever endorse the act of a marriage between violent action and speech.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1947362' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:42 PM']Pot, meet kettle.[/quote]

Perhaps it is more ture in your case you sound very angry. It's almost as if you would be shouting like these town hallers if we are talking in person.

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1947362' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:42 PM']I wasn't calling names, I was using descriptive words.[/quote]

You called Americans who don't agree with you unpatriotic and unamerican liars. But however you want to spin it. Think we should just take some time off, your not being civil your cursing and calling people this and that or whatever. Take a break and clam down.

Edited August 12, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='BG45' post='1947368' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:48 PM']I would call unpatriotic being nearly striking a United States Senator and screaming that revolution is brewing...but that's just me, and probably Senator MacCaskill after her last town hall meeting where it happened. We are given a wonderful freedom in this nation, the freedom to disagree with our leaders and to make our opinions known. We are given the freedom to demonstrate peaceably as to this disagreement of opinion.

The way violence keeps popping up in town halls [b]is unAmerican[/b]. Do I feel violence in town halls is unpatriotic? Yes I do feel that expressing one's opinion through violence is not patriotic, when we are able to go and have civil discourse. I personally have no problem with people being disruptive to voice their opinions, because if a politician is of any caliber, they can deal with that. I once was privledged to be at an event with Tom DeLay ® where a woman had such an outburst that went on for ten minutes, and he actually stopped security from removing her. He was willing to hear the dissent and address it, because he recognized that dissent can be patriotic, and the opportunity to hold one's ground amidst screaming fanatics makes a very powerful point.

But who am I? I'm just as happy to witness protests regardless of who is in office, within reason. Because a calm protest, even some disruptive (but non-violent) ones show that we as a nation have not lost our fires and passions for our freedom of speech. However, violent protest strikes a cord of barbarity that is not covered in our Constitution; though it is a living and breathing document that continues to change over the eras, I sincerely doubt it will ever endorse the act of a marriage between violent action and speech.[/quote]

The only people that have been attack, truly attack where conservatives by liberals. Lets not forget that shall we.

[BG45]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1947376' date='Aug 12 2009, 07:55 PM']The only people that have been attack, truly attack where conservatives by liberals. Lets not forget that shall we.[/quote]

If you could cite some examples, that would be good. As best as my personal abilities have been able to tell, neither side is pleasant and angelic in their rhetoric, nor their violence in the past to almost present age. Which is most unfortunate.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1947372' date='Aug 12 2009, 05:52 PM']Perhaps it is more ture in your case you sound very angry. It's almost as if you would be shouting like these town hallers if we are talking in person.



You called Americans who don't agree with you unpatriotic and unamerican liars. But however you want to spin it. Think we should just take some time off, your not being civil your cursing and calling people this and that or whatever. Take a break and clam down.[/quote]
I said that those who make up lies and feel the need to shout them are unpatriotic and unamerican. If they can't resort to actual discussion and feel the need to use deceitful means, that IS unpatriotic and unamerican. It's a complete distortion to claim I believe anyone who disagrees is either of those things, especially when i just got done saying that I didn't believe that:
[quote name='fidei defensor']I don't think it's unpatriotic or unamerican to disagree with or debate the ideas of the administration.[/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1947381' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:57 PM']I said that those who make up lies and feel the need to shout them are unpatriotic and unamerican. If they can't resort to actual discussion and feel the need to use deceitful means, that IS unpatriotic and unamerican. It's a complete distortion to claim I believe anyone who disagrees is either of those things, especially when i just got done saying that I didn't believe that:[/quote]

Your charge that these people are lying can't be proved unless we can read their minds, or unless they have stated two competently contradictory things. To lie, to truly lie one must know the truth and purposely state a falsehood. You can state what they are saying is false but to state they are lying without proof, or a mind reader is an attack on their character.

Edited August 13, 2009 by KnightofChrist