Miracles

[CorMaria]

Do you think that miracles (stigmata, Saints lives) and things such as apparitions at Fatima etc, are a solid proof for Churches claim to be the one, true Church founded by Christ?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='CorMaria' date='11 September 2009 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1252625370' post='1964604']
Do you think that miracles (stigmata, Saints lives) and things such as apparitions at Fatima etc, are a solid proof for Churches claim to be the one, true Church founded by Christ?
[/quote]
No! Other religions could make the same claims. The difference between Christians and other religions is that we have the historical knowledge of Jesus or God in human form and what he taught. But other religions still have God in their hearts and what he wishes them to do. This does not make them a lesser religion than Christianity. There are numerous Christians who do not live by Christian ideals in fact all of us are sinners.

[Gregorius]

I'm sure there a few groups other than the Church that claim to have miracles happen in there midst.

Then there are those that can be swayed by nothing, and would reason anything away.

And there are quite a few people "outside" the church that some would consider holy.

You'd think something like that would be legit proof, but I would suppose not in my opinion.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Gregorius' date='10 September 2009 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1252627029' post='1964623']
I'm sure there a few groups other than the Church that claim to have miracles happen in there midst.
[/quote]

Certainly, but is their any validity in their claims?

[Gregorius]

For that matter, are there any validity in our claims? I seem to think so, but I'm sure others would disagree.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Gregorius' date='10 September 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1252628570' post='1964633']
For that matter, are there any validity in our claims? I seem to think so, but I'm sure others would disagree.
[/quote]

Others would also disagree that the earth revolves around the sun.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='10 September 2009 - 07:54 PM' timestamp='1252626842' post='1964621']
No! Other religions could make the same claims. The difference between Christians and other religions is that we have the historical knowledge of Jesus or God in human form and what he taught. But other religions still have God in their hearts and what he wishes them to do. This does not make them a lesser religion than Christianity. There are numerous Christians who do not live by Christian ideals in fact all of us are sinners.
[/quote]
It does make it a "lesser" religion to not have the fullness of truth. They're not lesser people though.

[Apotheoun]

True miracles are helps to piety, but they cannot be used as "proofs" of the truth of any religion. It must always be borne in mind that things that appear miraculous can also be caused by demonic forces.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='11 September 2009 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1252646448' post='1964802']
It does make it a "lesser" religion to not have the fullness of truth. They're not lesser people though.
[/quote]
I don't believe that knowledge makes one religion greater than another. To love your God and your neighbour cannot be out done, therefore any religion that follows this core belief is as good as any other. They have all been corrupted by man and his 'Knowledge' in some way or another.

[Cruce]

If miracles were exclusive to the Catholic faith, then yes. But they're not. For example some Muslims experience something similar to stigmata. They develop the wounds of Ali and other Shia martyrs.

[CorMaria]

To me something like Fatima stands out. It seems that these occurences are far more common within the Catholic Church than without.

[CorMaria]

And I do believe that every other religion that isn't Catholic is a 'lesser' religion. In no way do I think any of them are equal. Other than the Catholic Church, they were either founded by humans wanting to make money, spread a false philosophy, or perhaps even by possesed persons.

[Cruce]

[quote name='CorMaria' date='13 September 2009 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1252820762' post='1965687']
To me something like Fatima stands out. It seems that these occurences are far more common within the Catholic Church than without.
[/quote]

That's because you live in the West where Christianity is historically hegemonic.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CorMaria' date='13 September 2009 - 12:47 AM' timestamp='1252820874' post='1965688']
And I do believe that every other religion that isn't Catholic is a 'lesser' religion. In no way do I think any of them are equal. Other than the Catholic Church, they were either founded by humans wanting to make money, spread a false philosophy, or perhaps even by possesed persons.
[/quote]
I agree with you.

[Cruce]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 September 2009 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1252821215' post='1965691']
I agree with you.
[/quote]

I don't. It's not a "lesser" religion, it's a false religion.

[Jaime]

[quote name='CorMaria' date='13 September 2009 - 01:47 AM' timestamp='1252820874' post='1965688']
And I do believe that every other religion that isn't Catholic is a 'lesser' religion. In no way do I think any of them are equal. Other than the Catholic Church, they were either founded by humans wanting to make money, spread a false philosophy, or perhaps even by possesed persons.
[/quote]

Who the heck is giving negative points to this? This is what we believe as Catholics!! The Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Truth. No other religion can state that.

I will stand with Blessed Teresa of Calcutta when she says "I love other religions but I am in love with my own. " I have friends and family of other faiths. I love them dearly, I pray for them and ask them to pray for me. I pray that one day they find the fullness of the Truth.

PS If people reading this feel that CorMaria should gain more negative points, I'd ask that they don't give them to him but give them to me instead.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='13 September 2009 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1252865051' post='1965816'][quote name='CorMaria' date='12 September 2009 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1252820874' post='1965688']
And I do believe that every other religion that isn't Catholic is a 'lesser' religion. In no way do I think any of them are equal. Other than the Catholic Church, they were either founded by humans wanting to make money, spread a false philosophy, or perhaps even by possesed persons.
[/quote]
Who the heck is giving negative points to this? This is what we believe as Catholics!! The Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Truth. No other religion can state that.[/quote]
I agree. There is nothing unorthodox in CorMaria's post.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Cruce' date='13 September 2009 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1252823928' post='1965704']
I don't. It's not a "lesser" religion, it's a false religion.
[/quote]
Last time I checked, lesser meant "not as great", and 'false' would also fall under that term. Yes, they are also false religions. They also happen to all be less than Catholicism.
By the way, I don't find it any less correct to call them "lesser" because many religions contain some limited elements of Truth which point towards the fullness of Truth contained in the Catholic Church.

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='11 September 2009 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1252651472' post='1964827']
I don't believe that knowledge makes one religion greater than another. To love your God and your neighbour cannot be out done, therefore any religion that follows this core belief is as good as any other. They have all been corrupted by man and his 'Knowledge' in some way or another.
[/quote]

Hmm...you are absolutely correct that to love God and neighbor well is indeed flawless in itself. However, how does one love his neighbor well? In truth. Christ is the Truth. You cannot feel truth, you can know it though. Those who do not have an education (look at Therese of Liseux or Faustina Kowlska) often love well and in truth.

Our Holy Father illustrates this well in Caritas in Veritate (Truth in Charity)

If you love without truth...it is no more than fuzzy feelings and being permissive. This is dangerous.

You need truth in love.
..and no need to be so down on knowledge, it is our way of experiencing truth. God gave us the capacity to know Him and His truths. Knoweldge is good when it is pursuing truth.

[Kitty]

Religions can state that they have the "Truth" until the cows come home. It doesn't mean they really do. What proof do you have that Jesus actually rose from the dead? Only words written by MEN, plenty of whom are dishonest, make mistakes, or are just following a trend. There are plenty of other pre-Christ gods (that Catholics say are false) that men documented as rising from the dead. Please tell me how the Christian resurrection is radically different.