Miracles

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Kitty' date='13 September 2009 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1252879019' post='1965889']
Religions can state that they have the "Truth" until the cows come home. It doesn't mean they really do. What proof do you have that Jesus actually rose from the dead? Only words written by MEN, plenty of whom are dishonest, make mistakes, or are just following a trend. There are plenty of other pre-Christ gods (that Catholics say are false) that men documented as rising from the dead. Please tell me how the Christian resurrection is radically different.
[/quote]

What is radically different is your first error in your post. Written records are one thing, lives lived and lost are the more genuine proofs. The disciples were weak men who fled at the arrest of Jesus. Yet, somehow these same men unprepared to be arrested that night were ready to die cruel and violent deaths not ten to 15 years later.

The difference is this: [u]No one dies for a lie.[/u].

[Selah]

[quote]No one dies for a lie.. [/quote]

Yeah, you know, because radical Muslims don't do that at all, do they?

[quote]Religions can state that they have the "Truth" until the cows come home[/quote]

Amen. It's called FAITH and not FACT for a reason. Every religion claims to have miracles of some kind, proofs, etc.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Kitty' date='13 September 2009 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1252879019' post='1965889']
Religions can state that they have the "Truth" until the cows come home. It doesn't mean they really do. What proof do you have that Jesus actually rose from the dead? Only words written by MEN, plenty of whom are dishonest, make mistakes, or are just following a trend. There are plenty of other pre-Christ gods (that Catholics say are false) that men documented as rising from the dead. Please tell me how the Christian resurrection is radically different.
[/quote]
What makes you think your agnosticism/atheism is better?

Specifically RE: pre-Christian religions bearing similarities to Christianity, we actually tend to assert that these are intentional 'precludes' which point directly towards Christ, and have been orchestrated through God's actions throughout history.
Just in case you actually wanted that addressed.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Selah' date='13 September 2009 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1252882786' post='1965926']
Yeah, you know, because radical Muslims don't do that at all, do they?
[/quote]

Radical Muslims sincerely believe in what they die for.

[Selah]

[quote]Radical Muslims sincerely believe in what they die for. [/quote]

I know. I was pointing that out She said no one dies for a lie, yet if Islam is a lie, the radicals do it all the time.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Selah' date='13 September 2009 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1252884317' post='1965951']
I know. I was pointing that out She said no one dies for a lie, yet if Islam is a lie, the radicals do it all the time.
[/quote]

I would say that no sane person willingly dies a martyr for a cause in which he does not believe.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Resurrexi

[MIKolbe]

i think you mean

"as a martyr..."

[Selah]

[quote] I would say that no sane person willingly dies a martyr for a cause in which he does not believe.[/quote]

But they do believe it, silly head!
[quote]
i think you mean

"as a martyr..." [/quote]

Edited September 13, 2009 by Selah

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Selah' date='13 September 2009 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1252882786' post='1965926']
Yeah, you know, because radical Muslims don't do that at all, do they?



Amen. It's called FAITH and not FACT for a reason. Every religion claims to have miracles of some kind, proofs, etc.
[/quote]



That's actually a pretty good point...

Still however, the fundamental difference between the Apostles radical Muslims is that the Apostles illustrated there lack of faith and then demonstrated heroic faith, something must have occurred which would instigate such a change of heart. If I was too afraid to get arrested for someone that I swore I would never deny...why would I die for someone who was Crucified and I never saw again??

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Selah' date='13 September 2009 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1252884317' post='1965951']
I know. I was pointing that out She said no one dies for a lie, yet if Islam is a lie, the radicals do it all the time.
[/quote]

...and I am a guy. Servus is masculine

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='11 September 2009 - 02:44 AM' timestamp='1252651472' post='1964827']
I don't believe that knowledge makes one religion greater than another. To love your God and your neighbour cannot be out done, therefore any religion that follows this core belief is as good as any other. They have all been corrupted by man and his 'Knowledge' in some way or another.
[/quote]

How do you know then ultimately what is corrupted teaching and what is not?

[quote name='Cruce' date='11 September 2009 - 03:52 AM' timestamp='1252655575' post='1964836']
If miracles were exclusive to the Catholic faith, then yes. But they're not. For example some Muslims experience something similar to stigmata. They develop the wounds of Ali and other Shia martyrs.
[/quote]

Demons can do do miracles too. By that reason, miracles need to be approached with hesitation.

[quote name='Servus_Mariae' date='13 September 2009 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1252882594' post='1965924']
What is radically different is your first error in your post. Written records are one thing, lives lived and lost are the more genuine proofs. The disciples were weak men who fled at the arrest of Jesus. Yet, somehow these same men unprepared to be arrested that night were ready to die cruel and violent deaths not ten to 15 years later.

The difference is this: [u]No one dies for a lie.[/u].
[/quote]

Well....no one dies for what they think is a lie. Whether it's a lie or not is immaterial. What matters is what the person thinks. So while martyerdom can be viewed as strong reason to think the person strongly believed in something, it's not the absolute end-all proof.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Servus_Mariae' date='13 September 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1252887108' post='1965996']
...and I am a guy. Servus is masculine
[/quote]
I made the same mistake until I looked at your profile.

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='13 September 2009 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1252887804' post='1965999']
How do you know then ultimately what is corrupted teaching and what is not?



Demons can do do miracles too. By that reason, miracles need to be approached with hesitation.



Well....no one dies for what they think is a lie. Whether it's a lie or not is immaterial. What matters is what the person thinks. So while martyerdom can be viewed as strong reason to think the person strongly believed in something, it's not the absolute end-all proof.
[/quote]

I suppose that's true.

Nonetheless, I still find it rather curious that these men somehow converted to such a magnificent degree. Could anything less than miraculous occur that would spur on admittedly weak men to develop unshakable faith?

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

Read "The Worlds Greatest Secret" by John Haffert and find out how the Resurection can be proved historically. Its a book about archeology and the catholic faith. And will not take long to read at all.