The Soul: Does It Exist?

[Secuutus]

I believe we have soul, but in philosophy class today we got into a heated debate about it. So I was wandering what all of your views are on it. thanks!

[Christopher Brandon]

Of course we have souls. This body is just a shell, or as some would refer to it, a temple, either way we live on without it.
I'll put it how Obe-wan put it: "Strike me down now and I shall become more powerful then you could ever imagine." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]

[Fidei Defensor]

Personally, I don't believe so. I believe we are the product of our anatomy and physiology and that once that has broken down, we cease to exist as a person and our bodies decay.

[Marie-Therese]

Be in the presence of a person as they die. That will answer your question.

[Nunsense]

If we don't, then it is a pretty meaningless existence.

Jesus believes in our souls.... what more can I say?

[eagle_eye222001]

If Roman Catholicism is what it claims to be, we have a soul. If not, then I don't think we do, and pretty much all this religious stuff is stuff we made up or were inspired to make up.

So for me it comes down to whether religion is true. I wouldn't know how to argue this from a secular viewpoint.

Can you share with us basically how both sides were arguing it?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='18 September 2009 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1253335876' post='1969044']
If Roman Catholicism is what it claims to be, we have a soul. If not, then I don't think we do, and pretty much all this religious stuff is stuff we made up or were inspired to make up.

So for me it comes down to whether religion is true. I wouldn't know how to argue this from a secular viewpoint.

Can you share with us basically how both sides were arguing it?
[/quote]
I would guess that it was argued from a consciousness and free will perspective. That's crazy tricky in philosophy, as I'm sure you know.

[CatherineM]

I've seen the light at the end of the tunnel. If it wasn't my soul walking down there, then what was it?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='18 September 2009 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1253313773' post='1968869']
I believe we have soul, but in philosophy class today we got into a heated debate about it. So I was wandering what all of your views are on it. thanks!
[/quote]


If you mean an immortal soul, an immaterial, unitary substance existing in a dualistic relationship with the body, then no.

[dairygirl4u2c]

have you had a near death experience catherine? it seems like i remember you sayin you did, once. i've always associated that phenomenon with you, anyway, for some reason.
do you have it posted somewhere, the experience? do you have key word suggestions if it's in the archives?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='nunsense' date='19 September 2009 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1253335173' post='1969037']
If we don't, then it is a pretty meaningless existence.

[/quote]

I agree! Self awareness is indicative of more than memory, sensory and processing power. I can give all these things to a machine but I cannot give it self awareness. Only God can do that! BTW during a biofeedback relaxation experiment I achieved an out of body experience. I remained linked to my body but I imagine this link would cease upon the death of my mortal body.

[Hassan]

[quote name='nunsense' date='19 September 2009 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1253335173' post='1969037']
If we don't, then it is a pretty meaningless existence.
[/quote]


Why?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Hassan' date='19 September 2009 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1253343306' post='1969080']
Why?
[/quote]

Ask people in third world countries! A select few people have enjoyable lives and would no doubt say that it is meaningful from an enjoyable point of view. The vast majority of people however struggle through life, have children who they love who struggle through life and then die. If we are sick or have some adversity we don't enjoy our life. If we are well and don't have adversity we worry about becoming sick and having adversity and don't enjoy life. Most people seem to be always trying to get somewhere. We are born, try to achieve education. When we have that we try to get a good job and get to the top. We try to save and buy our own home. We try to save for our retirement. We try to stay well so we can enjoy retirement. Then we die!

[Secuutus]

People were arguing with the fact that emotions and feelings can explained in the human mind. How if were to have a c-scan when were epierecing something u can see the multiple brain waves activating, thus making u "feel" that way, then when the experience is gone no mare brain waves.

[Servus_Mariae]

You could approach it epistemologically. How is it we come to know, and what is it that we come to know?

This capacity to obtain knowledge is called abstraction. In this way, the human person can grasp that which is incorporeal and can do so distinct from physical experiences. These incorporeal realities are known and related as universals (e.g. Goodness: love, pleasure, beauty, truth...all of this is related to good and can be seen in these things; which consequently can be related to other things as well).

The capacity to come to know that which is good or true or beautiful is unending. I have yet to meet a person of advanced age discover that their ability to obtain new information is impossible. Likewise, no amount of human beings can use up these concepts. No one can use up all of the "justice" or run out of the notion of "good".

So, an infinite capacity (abstraction) to know that which is infinite in nature (concepts) indicates a faculty of infinite vitality. As abstraction and concepts are distinct from the body itself, the body need not exist for its existence to be sustained.

[Secuutus]

[quote name='Servus_Mariae' date='19 September 2009 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1253388127' post='1969276']
You could approach it epistemologically. How is it we come to know, and what is it that we come to know?

This capacity to obtain knowledge is called abstraction. In this way, the human person can grasp that which is incorporeal and can do so distinct from physical experiences. These incorporeal realities are known and related as universals (e.g. Goodness: love, pleasure, beauty, truth...all of this is related to good and can be seen in these things; which consequently can be related to other things as well).

The capacity to come to know that which is good or true or beautiful is unending. I have yet to meet a person of advanced age discover that their ability to obtain new information is impossible. Likewise, no amount of human beings can use up these concepts. No one can use up all of the "justice" or run out of the notion of "good".

So, an infinite capacity (abstraction) to know that which is infinite in nature (concepts) indicates a faculty of infinite vitality. As abstraction and concepts are distinct from the body itself, the body need not exist for its existence to be sustained.
[/quote]

I dont want to sound dumb but can you, or someone else, please put thay it Marine talk? lol like dumb it down a little! lol

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='19 September 2009 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1253395276' post='1969329']
I dont want to sound dumb but can you, or someone else, please put thay it Marine talk? lol like dumb it down a little! lol
[/quote]

Sorry man...I am a philosophy major, which means I am a master of making myself sound smarter than I actually am.

Basically I mean this: When you learn a concept, you are gaining information which you cannot touch or see. This "concept" is not injected into your brain. You cannot even argue that it is a brain response because the concept was there before your brain was. So...this means you have the ability to obtain concepts using apart of you that is not physical.

Think of it this way: Justice. How do you know what it is? What is it? Can you see it? No because it is immaterial. Justice is not a brain wave or collection of cells. It is not neurological. And yet...you know what it is. You can experience it, though it is not material.

Now...we have established that you can experience it. But how do you get it? You have to "reach out" and "pull away" (Latin: ab=away tract=pull/ abstract) these concepts. As you read this...you are "pulling away" the concepts which are immaterial. This part of you is not your brain specifically because these concepts are not physical realities like your brain is. So how do you grasp immaterial things? With immaterial experiences. What part of you can experience the immaterial? Your soul.

You are an immaterial being which can experience this immaterial.

The part that confuses things...is the fact that we are not just souls. We are "body-souls". Each can have an impact on the other. So, its easy to simply push off one experience as being of the body and disregarding the soul. The problem here is thus: If you have only material experience...how can you entertain the immaterial?

I hope that helps.

[Nihil Obstat]

Servus_Mariae, I'm taking philosophy this semester and thinking about doing a minor. If I ever have questions I'm totally going to bug you first.

[elizabeth09]

As a Roman Catholic woman, I beleive that every human being has a soul.

[Secuutus]

Okay now I get it lol. I was thinking majoring in philosophy, now after reading your first response, im not so sure now lol. Im thinking of majoring in anthropology, I might stick with that instead! lol [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]