Beware Of Monastery Icons!

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='22 September 2009 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1253641824' post='1971065']
Without a doubt, I do like to own Catholic things made by devout Catholic people. But just because the group making and selling Catholic goods isn't expressly Christian doesn't mean anything. Have the item blessed, and pray for the people who made it.
[/quote]
I would have the icons blessed and then burn them. An icon is a prayer, a prayer of the whole Church composed by an iconographer who holds the Church's faith, and that is why a non-Christian cannot produce a true icon.

[StColette]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='22 September 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1253641824' post='1971065']

Without a doubt, I do like to own Catholic things made by devout Catholic people. But just because the group making and selling Catholic goods isn't expressly Christian doesn't mean anything. Have the item blessed, and pray for the people who made it.
[/quote]

I think what bothers me most about them is that if these icons have been "blessed" by one of their priests, monks, or whatever as the one article claims, that makes me a little uneasy, especially if it's a pagan blessing ritual. I know I could have a priest bless it, but something still makes me uneasy at the thought of having something that could have a pagan blessing on it in my household.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='StColette' date='22 September 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1253651922' post='1971139']
I think what bothers me most about them is that if these icons have been "blessed" by one of their priests, monks, or whatever as the one article claims, that makes me a little uneasy, especially if it's a pagan blessing ritual. I know I could have a priest bless it, but something still makes me uneasy at the thought of having something that could have a pagan blessing on it in my household.
[/quote]
That is why I would have the item blessed by a priest, and only then would I burn it. An image made by one who does not share the faith of the Church is not a true icon, and so to offer such an image veneration -- from an Eastern Christian perspective -- would be to perform an act of idolatry.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 September 2009 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1253646897' post='1971111']
I would have the icons blessed and then burn them. An icon is a prayer, a prayer of the whole Church composed by an iconographer who holds the Church's faith, and that is why a non-Christian cannot produce a true icon.
[/quote]

Thanks for explaining that. I guess I am not very familiar with icons.

Until now, I didn't think of it as Christian prayer. Although, if a non-Christian is trying to pray a Christian prayer, that's not a horrible thing in and of itself. Let them. And I'll pray for them.

What I do understand iconography to be is a teaching tool. Although I think some of the comments on another board calling the icons "heretical" was a little much. I would just say some details were incorrect.

[quote name='StColette' date='22 September 2009 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1253651922' post='1971139']
I think what bothers me most about them is that if these icons have been "blessed" by one of their priests, monks, or whatever as the one article claims...
[/quote]

Ya, that is a reason to be bothered by them. A good reason.

[Theologian in Training]

Duh, I could bless them myself, with any prayer, even minor exorcism prayers. Sometimes, I forget the power that has been entrusted to me

[marielapin]

Thanks for posting the other link, it was a bit more well-written. Luckily I have never bought from them, but I do have their catalogs. If you go to their website they sell "prayer beads" which absolutely look nothing like a rosary, and have the tassel at the end.

[StColette]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='23 September 2009 - 10:31 AM' timestamp='1253716317' post='1971446']
Duh, I could bless them myself, with any prayer, even minor exorcism prayers. Sometimes, I forget the power that has been entrusted to me
[/quote]

rofl!!

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='23 September 2009 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1253714126' post='1971432']
Until now, I didn't think of it as Christian prayer. Although, if a non-Christian is trying to pray a Christian prayer, that's not a horrible thing in and of itself. Let them. And I'll pray for them.
[/quote]
It is commendable when a non-Christian tries to pray a Christian prayer, but Christianity -- according to the Church Fathers -- is not "self-taught"; rather, it is passed on from one generation to another. Moreover, in this particular case, the people who make [i]Monastery Icons[/i] believe that Hinduism is the true Christianity, and so I do not believe that they are sincerely trying to pray a Christian prayer.

If I owned a [i]Monastery Icon[/i] I would have a priest bless it, and then I would dispose of it according to the custom of the Church (i.e., by burning it).

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='23 September 2009 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1253714126' post='1971432']
What I do understand iconography to be is a teaching tool. Although I think some of the comments on another board calling the icons "heretical" was a little much. I would just say some details were incorrect. [/quote]
Although there is a didactic element associated with icons, that is not -- according to the dogmatic tradition of the Church -- their primary purpose. Icons are primarily the living expression of the faith of the Church in pictorial form, and their true value is as mysteries intended for veneration by the Christian faithful. A true icon is the manifestation of God's presence in, with, and through, the saint or event depicted. It is impossible for a non-Christian to write a true icon.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='23 September 2009 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1253714126' post='1971432']
Although I think some of the comments on another board calling the icons "heretical" was a little much. I would just say some details were incorrect. [/quote]
One who lacks the faith of the Church cannot produce an icon, because icons are not simply a type of art that can be mimicked. In fact, if a person who was not a Christian tried to produce a Christian icon such an image would be a lie, and it could -- either through ignorance or through malicious intention -- promote heretical ideas.

[Apotheoun]

Those interested in gaining a better understanding of the nature and purpose of icons should consult the book below:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=NMKZoy6EJfcC&dq=the+mystical+language+of+icons&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=versOVLl2O&sig=LM4uZBI7VomJbyKakUVztqt1x2E&hl=en&ei=kjm6SsTMGIjWsQPGsLAs&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false"][u]The Mystical Language of Icons[/u][/url]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='23 September 2009 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1253716317' post='1971446']
Duh, I could bless them myself, with any prayer, even minor exorcism prayers. Sometimes, I forget the power that has been entrusted to me
[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

In the Eastern Christian tradition icons are similar to the Eucharist, for both of these sacred things -- albeit in different ways -- extend the mystery of the incarnation through space and time, and both are acts of worship given to the true God.

That said, would a Catholic go to a Eucharistic liturgy celebrated by a Hindu priest and receive communion?

[Starets]

I was sending some pictures of ikons made by one of my brother monks (of St. Benedict and St. Florian), when the following link came up in my gmail account. They seem to be legit at least and the artwork looks very pretty:

[url="http://www.notofthisworldicons.com/index.html"]Not of This World Ikons[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[i]It is important to remember that an icon is not simply a "holy picture"; rather, it is a theophany of divine energy and a personal (enhypostatic) manifestation of the saint (or event) depicted in it.

The following, which is from a post I wrote some time ago, explains this dogmatic truth in more detail:[/i]


[size="3"]An icon is a living expression of the Orthodox faith.

In other words, an icon is not a piece of art, and the iconographer is not an artist in the modern sense of that word, because he is not trying to express his own ideas, nor is he trying to display his own natural talents. The iconographer is first and foremost creating a liturgical prayer, a window into heaven, and in order to do that he must live the Orthodox faith through prayer and fasting, while following the norms established by the Church's iconographic Tradition.

Moreover, in writing an icon the iconographer is creating a specific memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of an event or person within the life of the Church, a memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) that is identical to the memory ([i]anamnesis[/i]) of the whole Church. Thus, an icon is a theophany, i.e., it is a manifestation of God through an eruption of divine energy into the world, which means that an icon really is what it signifies; and so, to touch an icon is to touch the personal reality of the mystery depicted in it.[/size]