vianney Posted April 4, 2004 Posted April 4, 2004 [url="http://www.stjoan.com/glfr.htm"]http://www.stjoan.com/glfr.htm[/url] Go to this website and download the second of the three audio clips. Not only is a woman giving the homily but she is preaching on GLBT marriages and sexual relations and how they are ok and the Church officials are mistaken. By the way this is a Catholic Church Im sorry if this offends anyone out here who may be gay and struggeling with their problem but look I dont judge anyone who is struggeling with GLBT tendencies and is trying to fight them and not give in to their sexual desires. The Catholic Church has said there is nothing wrong with having the feelnigs as long as you surpess the actions. These ppl on this website though seem to be advocation the actions along with marriage which the Church has CLEARLY came out against and said is wrong wrong wrong. The point is this, why is this happening and what needs to be done about it because it is creating falsehoods among the GLBT community as to what the Catholic Church's stance is on this issue.
MagiDragon Posted April 4, 2004 Posted April 4, 2004 is that really the right page? I can't find the clips.
MagiDragon Posted April 4, 2004 Posted April 4, 2004 hmmm . . . i'd heard that there was some trouble in a minnesota diocese, maybe this is it. that's really ridiculous though
Dave Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 Sadly, that parish is a pretty well-known example of what happens when priests and parishioners choose to do things their way instead of the Church's way. I know for a fact that this has been going on for over 30 years. Gloria Steinem has even been a guest speaker.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 (edited) Hey brother, I'll type out Chistopher West's Book. [b]"Why can't women be priest?"[/b] "For many women, the fact that the Catholic Church reserves priestly ordination to men stirs a caldron of intense emotion fired by the 'historical consciousness' of women's oppression. Only in recent years, it seems, has the Church been willing to acknowledge and ask forgivness for the fact that, as John Paul II expressed in his [i]letter to Women[/i], 'objective blame [for this oppression], especially in particular historical context, has belonged to not just a few members of the Church. May this regret,' he continues, 'be transformed, on the part of the whole Church, into a renewed commitment of fidelity to the Gospel vision.' "This Gospel vision is precisley what we've been discussing throughout this book: the great 'nuptial mystery' of Christ's union with the Church symbolized from the beginning by our creation as male and female. Fidelity to this vision calls us to uphold woman's dignity at every turn and to resist the ways in which gender roles have been exaggerated to favor men. But it also calls us to resist the other extreme that views men and women as interchangeable. "As mentioned previously, equality between the sexes doesn't mean sameness. It's the fundamental difference of the sexes that reveals the great 'nuptial mystery.' It's fundamental difference of the sexes that quite literally brings life to the world....... " Men and Women have different callings in this life-giving communion. It's the bridegroom who gives the seed, and the bride who conceives life within her. One role isn't better than the other. Both are equally dignified and indispensable. "We must recive the calling we've been given as a gift from God if we are ever to be at peace with ourselves. Should man complain that God hasn't given them the privilege of being mothers? For a women to want to be an ordained priest is similarly misguided. [b]"We call priests father for a reason. Priests efficaciously symbolize Christ's giving up his body for his Bride so that she can conceive life ' in the Holy Spirit.' Only men can do this. As John Paul II reminds us: [i][u]'It is the Eucharist that above all expresses the redemptive act of Christ the Bridegroom towards the Church, the Bride.This is clear and unambiguous when the sacramental ministry of the Eucharist, in which the priest acts 'in the person of Christ,' is performed by a man.'[/u][/i][/b] [b]"If the ministry of the Eucharist were performed by a women, the symbolism would become that of bride to bride. There would be no possibilty of effecting nuptial union, and thus no possibility of new life coming to the Church.[/b] Here we see again how intimately united the marital embrace is with the Eucharist. John Paul II sums it up this way: [b][i][u]'The Eucharist is...the sacrament of the Bridegroom and of the Bride."[/u][/i][/b] (Bolds added by me) I hope this helps on the facts about the problem! It is wrong for a women to be doing this, not in a dominating way just the fact that it's impossible! God Bless Jason Edited April 5, 2004 by Jason
homeschoolmom Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 Ah, St. Joan of Arc... The shame of the St. Paul/Mpls. diocese... I knew it before I even clicked on the link... <sigh> I wish Archbishop Flynn would do something about that parish... it's scandalous... :ph34r:
the lumberjack Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 and what will the catholic church do if these people continue to do what they do? will WHOLE parishes be anathema because of this if they continue to preach what they do? or will they (homosexuals who stay gay and follow thru with everything) be given a place in catholocism? like the methodists, the mormons, and all the other denominations out there? cuz I'm actually lookin forward to the day we're outlawed. BACK TO THE UNDERGROUND!!!
Laudate_Dominum Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 lumberjack!! how have you been bro? Its good to see you around. Anyway, what sometimes happens with stuff like this is that the Bishop talks to the priest and tries to work it out. If the priest is obstinate, and if the Bishop is good, the priest might be disciplined. Some have been excommunicated, but its rare these days. As far as parishoners persisting in behavior that is against the Church's teachings. If they are outspoken about it and attack the Church that is one thing, but chances are they just do their thing so the Church doesn't really know about it. Their pastor would normally be the one to deal with it. For example counsel them in the confessional about their sin. But since in this case the priest sounds heretical, it would seem that these people are just living in sin and partaking of the Sacraments unworthily. This is a scandal and very sad for them. But I don't know what the Church would do about it. I guess if the Bishop knew about it he could try to send a solid, orthodox priest to that parish and hope he would make an impact. I've seen this happen at a parish and what ended up happening was that some of the people embraced the faith more fully, while others went further away from it and stopped going to Mass. Then people from other parishes started going to that parish and now it is an awesome parish with a devout and faithful congregation, good solid preaching, reverence at Mass, Adoration, etc.. Many Bishops and priests don't want to drive people away or offend anyone so they don't speak out or take action. It must be really hard to be in that position, and I can understand that they have good intentions, but sometimes you have to do some prunning for the vine to grow. God bless.
vianney Posted April 5, 2004 Author Posted April 5, 2004 homeschool mom; are you in teh archdiocese. I attend the minor seminary in the diocese at St Thomas called Saint John Vianney Seminary have you heard of it?
Hananiah Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 Archbishop Flynn isn't going to do anything about it any time soon. [url="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/remnant/colleen.htm"]http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/remnant/colleen.htm[/url]
homeschoolmom Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='vianney' date='Apr 5 2004, 06:58 AM']homeschool mom; are you in teh archdiocese. I attend the minor seminary in the diocese at St Thomas called Saint John Vianney Seminary have you heard of it?[/quote] Yes, we live in that archdiocese. I am in RCIA right now, so I am not too familiar with all the seminaries, but I'm familiar with the U of St. Thomas, of course. I'd like to hear more about your sem. PM me. [quote]Archbishop Flynn isn't going to do anything about it any time soon[/quote] I know... <sigh>
Pio Nono Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 JMJ 4/5 - Monday of Holy Week Actually, pray for St. Joan's - Flynn's actually doing something about it and it's tearing the parish apart. Whatever he's doing is good for the parish, I'm sure, but I'm also sure it's still painful.
homeschoolmom Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Apr 5 2004, 07:41 AM'] JMJ 4/5 - Monday of Holy Week Actually, pray for St. Joan's - Flynn's actually doing something about it and it's tearing the parish apart. Whatever he's doing is good for the parish, I'm sure, but I'm also sure it's still painful. [/quote] What is he doing? I don't mean that question to sound disrespectful... I'm just a convert with not much of an idea what is being done or what can be done... We didn't have this kind of problem in Protestantism... each denomination did it's own thing. (not advocating that, btw, so please don't jump all over me)... Problems at SJoA are completely new to me. Our Protestant church is very conservative.
Norseman82 Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 Interesting bulletin article: "Unraveling the Mysteries of Menopause"
cmotherofpirl Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Apr 5 2004, 09:41 AM'] JMJ 4/5 - Monday of Holy Week Actually, pray for St. Joan's - Flynn's actually doing something about it and it's tearing the parish apart. Whatever he's doing is good for the parish, I'm sure, but I'm also sure it's still painful. [/quote] We have been emailing the diocese for years about this parish. I hope he is finally doing something. Of course it will tear the parish apart. However if this problems had been addressed WHEN they started , it would not be so disasterous.
homeschoolmom Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 5 2004, 02:04 PM'] We have been emailing the diocese for years about this parish. I hope he is finally doing something. Of course it will tear the parish apart. However if this problems had been addressed WHEN they started , it would not be so disasterous. [/quote] Yes, but what is he doing?? Is he pulling the weird priests out of there? Is he disciplining someone? What? Frankly, I don't know what is done in these situations. I live in this diocese and I am not at all happy about St. Joan of Arc... (and Pax Christi and St. Stephen's and.... )
Jake Huether Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Apr 5 2004, 07:06 AM'] What is he doing? I don't mean that question to sound disrespectful... I'm just a convert with not much of an idea what is being done or what can be done... We didn't have this kind of problem in Protestantism... each denomination did it's own thing. (not advocating that, btw, so please don't jump all over me)... Problems at SJoA are completely new to me. Our Protestant church is very conservative. [/quote] Pray for the Bishop. I understand his consern, and I have a good idea why he's responded the way he has. Although Ms. Perfect's heart may be in the right spot, she is stepping over her bounds. There are ways to handle things. I should know, my mother had to deal with a pretty huge incident at our Parish years ago. Ms. Perfect and others like her would like to take a machete to the broken limb. The Bishop, on the other hand, would rather mend the wound. Reconciliation is a beautiful thing. But it takes time. Faithful laity at times become impatient, and would rather hack off the dying limb and be done with it. I'm taking a leap of faith and guessing that the Bishop had been working on a solution to mending the wound and reconciling the issue, but the abrasive and firey letters / emails sent by Ms. Perfect might have interfered. Sometimes it is not our duty to become our own Bishops. Prayer is powerful. Action is necessary at times, but at the RIGHT times. St. Joan of Arc pray for us.
popestpiusx Posted April 5, 2004 Posted April 5, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Apr 5 2004, 03:18 PM'] Ms. Perfect and others like her would like to take a machete to the broken limb. The Bishop, on the other hand, would rather mend the wound. [/quote] Sometimes a wounded limb must be removed in order to stop the spread of gangrene.
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