Glbt Relations

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
4/5 - Monday of Holy Week

St. Joan's is an interesting parish. It professes Catholicism, but for all intents and purposes, it isn't. They're the "lost sheep of the house of Israel," if you will. I think Flynn sees the parish less as a disobedient puppy and more as a mission field - St. Joan's is to be re-Catholicized altogether, not just "fixed." As a result, these changes take time. Don't expect anything drastic within the next year, but you'll see a change within a few years' time.

I know for a fact that Abp. Flynn, Bps. Campbell and Pates, as well as Fr. McDonough (the vicar-general) all met with the "pastoral council" at St. Joan's to discuss some issues last August. As far as I know, these meetings will continue. However, emails to the bishop about the things St. Joan's is doing wrong aren't going to help the situation at all; he already knows what's going on there and he's getting fed up with the emails. Instead of being pseudo-activists, let's try recourse to prayer: pray to St. Joan of Arc for St. Joan of Arc's.

[cmotherofpirl]

Pio they have been on our prayer list for years. I am thrilled that some progress is being made and will spread the word to double the prayers.

Is this a new Bishop?

Pio our effort was not connected with this person. About once a year, we would email the Church to dialogue and bishop and papal nuncio to complain. We never continually bombard anyone.

Edited April 5, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[popestpiusx]

The danger of the apparent lack of action (at least publicly) by Flynn and company is that it gives the appearance that nothing is being done. It sets a very bad example. The priests involved must be disciplined. Hoping for some future conversion (which is good in itself, of course, and even necessary) is going to result in the loss of souls in the meantime. It's a dangerous situation. We must pray!!

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Apr 5 2004, 01:26 PM'] Sometimes a wounded limb must be removed in order to stop the spread of gangrene. [/quote]
That is for the Vicar of Christ to decide, not the laity.


[quote]The danger of the apparent lack of action (at least publicly) by Flynn and company is that it gives the appearance that nothing is being done. [/quote]


It doesn't matter what "appears" to be happening or not happening. What matters is truth.

It also appears to many that the Church is behind the times. Should we accommodate our actions according to what others may perceive.

God has a time that is above our intelligence. The Bishops wait for the orders of the Holy Spirit, not an activist.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Apr 5 2004, 05:38 PM'] That is for the Vicar of Christ to decide, not the laity.





It doesn't matter what "appears" to be happening or not happening. What matters is truth.

It also appears to many that the Church is behind the times. Should we accommodate our actions according to what others may perceive.

God has a time that is above our intelligence. The Bishops wait for the orders of the Holy Spirit, not an activist. [/quote]
A bishop does not need to wait for an order from the Holy Spirit when a priest decides to reinvent the Mass.
It has nothing to do with being behind the times, but open scandal and confusion.

[MagiDragon]

hmmm . . . it is interesting. I also wonder what the Bishop is doing, but . . .

I read a couple to couple league pamphlet about 6 months ago that says essentially that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality that is not *also* wrong with contraception.

it used biblical references, at least one from Genesis. 'Twas quite an interesting read.

[the lumberjack]

[quote]That is for the Vicar of Christ to decide, not the laity.[/quote]

but if you see the higher ups doing anything, isn't it your duty to do something about it?

[Hananiah]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 5 2004, 04:33 PM']
but if you see the higher ups doing anything, isn't it your duty to do something about it? [/quote]
According to canon law we can register our greivances with our clergy, but there is little else we can do.

[the lumberjack]

so IF I went to St. Joan's, there's NOTHING I could do if I saw that the Priest there was TOTALLY WACK, besides register the votes of everyone else in the church....most of which are probly wack too?

[cmotherofpirl]

First you pray.
Then you document what you see. After Mass you approach the priest and ask if he could help your confusion.
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean you are right.
If he can't and won't explain it start researching it, praying the whole time, then ask the head of the local deanery, or the parochial vicar ( the guy under the bishop, in charge).
If you don't not get a response from the diocese, ask again, and follow up with a phone call.
If you get no response from the diocese, send a letter and copies of all correspondance (with copies to the bishop and priest) to the Archdiocese and Papal Nuncio.

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 5 2004, 02:42 PM']
[/quote]
[quote]A bishop does not need to wait for an order from the Holy Spirit when a priest decides to reinvent the Mass.[/quote]


Cmom, my point was that the Bishops don't follow the orders of the laity, much lest rash activists who are possibly impatient. The Bishops don't have to "tell" the laity what they or the Church are doing, or are working on doing. This particular Bishop might have been hairs away from mending the wound, and with a single rash or inflamitory email from some activist the would could be split open even further.



[quote]It has nothing to do with being behind the times, but open scandal and confusion.[/quote]


I was responding to a previous poster who was concerned about the image of the Church. My point was that the Church doesn't need to protect it's "image". People can see what they want. The sex scandle has nothing to do with the Teachings of the Church, outside the fact that it's blatanly against the Teachings. The sex scandles have to do with sinful humans inside the Church. The Churches Teachings might appear behind the times, but it doesn't matter what the "image" of the Church is.

That was my point.



[quote]First you pray.
Then you document what you see. After Mass you approach the priest and ask if he could help your confusion.
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean you are right.
If he can't and won't explain it start researching it, praying the whole time, then ask the head of the local deanery, or the parochial vicar ( the guy under the bishop, in charge).
If you don't not get a response from the diocese, ask again, and follow up with a phone call.
If you get no response from the diocese, send a letter and copies of all correspondance (with copies to the bishop and priest) to the Archdiocese and Papal Nuncio.[/quote]


I second that. Great advice.