Communion On The Hand

[nowak.chris]

[quote name='nunsense' date='09 November 2009 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1257771747' post='1998731']
Another good reason to attend a Latin Mass - we are still receiving on the tongue and using Holy Water! And we don't have to give the sign of peace - all good things! I do think that there has been a little bit of an overreaction to this virus thing with regard to Communion and Holy Water though ....
[/quote]

Whoops, [url="http://www.examiner.com/x-20920-Grand-Rapids-Catholic-Examiner~y2009m12d1-Calgary-bishop-suspends-Latin-Mass"]no more Latin Mass[/url] there either!

Miserere Nobis, Domine!

[Pliny]

I used to receive on the tounge, but stopped, because it was happening too often that I would feel the minister's fingers or hand touch my lips or tongue.

If it happens to me, it must surely happen to others.

I am happy that our temporary policy is now in the hand only. I don't want to receive communion that was touched by hands that touched other tounges, especially during a flu season.

As the letter from our pastor said in effect, was that we should subjugate our personal piety for the sake of the greater good.

Those who would insisist on receiving on the tongue are putting others at risk, and possibly causing them to be cautious and not receive Holy Communion.

Why fight it? What's wrong with thinking about the overall heath of the parish, and make that sacrifice for the greater good?


While on the subject of hygiene...we have some ushers who shake everyone's hand as they exit the pew for the communion line. I don't want to shake hands with them after they've just touched 100 other hands, and before I take Communion in the hand, and it's very distracting and not a time for an usher to act like a politician.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Pliny

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Pliny' date='17 December 2009 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1261104037' post='2022549']
[quote]I used to receive on the tounge, but stopped, because it was happening too often that I would feel the minister's fingers or hand touch my lips or tongue.

If it happens to me, it must surely happen to others.[/quote]

It rarely happens to me. Maybe you could try opening your mouth wider. I have noticed that tends to happen more with extraordinary ministers than priests. Maybe they get nervous. I don't know.

[quote]I am happy that our temporary policy is now in the hand only. I don't want to receive communion that was touched by hands that touched other tounges, especially during a flu season.[/quote]

Your diocese or parishes temporary policy is not in the hand only. No one has the authority to make it hands only except the Holy See, and the Holy See has maintained that Redemptionis Sacramentum, which states that "Each of the faithful [b]always[/b] has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue" (92, emphasis mine) still applies.

[quote]As the letter from our pastor said in effect, was that we should subjugate our personal piety for the sake of the greater good.

Those who would insisist on receiving on the tongue are putting others at risk, and possibly causing them to be cautious and not receive Holy Communion.

Why fight it? What's wrong with thinking about the overall heath of the parish, and make that sacrifice for the greater good? [/quote]

Interesting... you think the physical health of parishioners is greater good than the spiritual health of the parish? Personally I think spiritual health is the greater good, not to mention expressing external reverence and safeguarding the Blessed Sacrament, but that's just me. And anyway, personally I feel receiving on the tongue from a priest is more sanitary than a dozen extraordinary ministers distributing holy communion after having handled hymnals and shaking hands and wiping children's noses and who knows what else before they go up to distribute holy communion.

Not to mention, I trust that God can prevent me from getting sick when I receive communion and if he wants me to get sick for some reason when I do, it's going to happen whether or not I receive on the tongue. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with safeguards. But I don't think people should be trying to overturn the centuries old, still ordinary tradition of receiving holy communion every time a sickness goes around. The sick don't need to go to Mass anyway.

I find it ironic that I was refused holy communion on the tongue on Sunday, because it was "flu season" and yet, no one seemed to think there was any problem with everyone recieving from the chalice.

I think there's an ulterior motive to all this fuss about holy communion on the tongue being a greater risk for the flu, but again, that's just me.

[quote]While on the subject of hygiene...we have some ushers who shake everyone's hand as they exit the pew for the communion line. I don't want to shake hands with them after they've just touched 100 other hands, and before I take Communion in the hand, and it's very distracting and not a time for an usher to act like a politician.[/quote]

I agree with that, although not so much because its unhygienic as because its disrespectful.

Edited December 18, 2009 by zunshynn

[Archaeology cat]

As zunshynn said, I've only had a priest actually touch my tongue or lips maybe once or twice, and on one of those occasions it was because I'm taller than the priest and didn't stoop down enough. I prefer to receive on the tongue, but also don't usually have a free hand anyway.

[Pliny]

[quote]Your diocese or parishes temporary policy is not in the hand only. No one has the authority to make it hands only except the Holy See, and the Holy See has maintained that Redemptionis Sacramentum, which states that "Each of the faithful [b]always[/b] has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue" (92, emphasis mine) still applies.
[/quote]

Fine, but I think it's a reasonable request during a time of a heath crisis. How does it hurt you to receive in the hand? Will it damage you spiritually? Will you be more likely to sin? I don't see why it's worth a fight.

[quote]Interesting... you think the physical health of parishioners is greater good than the spiritual health of the parish? Personally I think spiritual health is the greater good, not to mention expressing external reverence and safeguarding the Blessed Sacrament, but that's just me. [/quote]

I never said or implied such a thing. If my personal practice is to receive on the tongue, but I'm asked by my pastor to receive in the hand for the sake of my fellow parishioners, I can give up my personal preference for their sakes. That little "sacrifice" on my part would not dimish my spiritul health, and in fact could increase it, since I'm doing what I would otherwise not do for the sake of my brothers and sisters.

And I would not defy the pastor and claim "my right." It's a very reasonable request and not something that should cause contention.

[quote]I find it ironic that I was refused holy communion on the tongue on Sunday, because it was "flu season" and yet, no one seemed to think there was any problem with everyone recieving from the chalice.[/quote]

Agreed. Receiving from the chalice has been suspended at our parish.

[quote]I think there's an ulterior motive to all this fuss about holy communion on the tongue being a greater risk for the flu, but again, that's just me.[/quote]

What would the "ulterior motive" be?

[Laudate_Dominum]

I keep reading this thread title as "Communism on the hand"

*facepalm*

But how would that work exactly?

[spoiler]
[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/pope_castro_cuba_012198.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/mao_communism_is_1_mousepad-p144015.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/communism-773745.jpg[/IMG]
[/spoiler]

[holly.o]

[quote name='Pliny' date='18 December 2009 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1261166956' post='2022794']
Fine, but I think it's a reasonable request during a time of a heath crisis. How does it hurt you to receive in the hand? Will it damage you spiritually? Will you be more likely to sin? I don't see why it's worth a fight.
[/quote]

Let's pose those questions at something else relating to the Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament: genuflecting. I think it does hurt you to not genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament because it shows lack of respect & love. In that way it hurts you spiritually because you're failing to fulfill the commandment to worship the Lord. & yes, that would lead to other sins of a similar type. Even that is worth a fight.

But the Eucharist is so much more intimate. Our Lord is giving Himself to you. Anything centered on that reality is definitely worth a fight, especially to those of us who are being challenged to change something that we consider important.

[quote]I never said or implied such a thing. If my personal practice is to receive on the tongue, but I'm asked by my pastor to receive in the hand for the sake of my fellow parishioners, I can give up my personal preference for their sakes. That little "sacrifice" on my part would not dimish my spiritul health, and in fact could increase it, since I'm doing what I would otherwise not do for the sake of my brothers and sisters.

And I would not defy the pastor and claim "my right." It's a very reasonable request and not something that should cause contention. [/quote]

Personally, I don't think that would help me spiritually to do that, but only God could be the judge of another's heart. Better, I think, for me, to make a spiritual communion & pray that God still receives reverence & adoration in the Blessed Sacrament.

& if someone does something contrary to what the Church teaches, it's your duty to defy them. & I don't think anyone actually said it was "my right" to even receive the Eucharist ever at all... ?


[quote]
What would the "ulterior motive" be?
[/quote]

I read that as lack of respect for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (correct me if I'm wrong, zunshynn). One of the arguments that compelled me to begin receiving on the tongue was that Protestants began receiving in the hand to deny He was truly present. & I do have a greater reverence for Him in the Blessed Sacrament now than before. So to me, it would be allowing greater doubt into whether or not this Sacrament is what (really - Who) the Church claims.

In Christ,
Holly


P.S. I'm sorry if any of that came off as rude - I really don't like to debate or even get into confrontations (even over the Internet!). It's just something that I've developed a deep conviction for, & I wanted to try to help you understand the other side since you asked.

[Pliny]

You'll have to do what you think is best, of course.

From my perspective, I'm so grateful to receive Communion, it doesn't matter to me whether someone puts it in my mouth or whether I do it myself. How it goes in does not diminsh or enlarge an infinite God, and again, from my own personal perpective, does not enlarge or diminish my belief.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Pliny' date='19 December 2009 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1261203747' post='2023045']
You'll have to do what you think is best, of course.

From my perspective, I'm so grateful to receive Communion, it doesn't matter to me whether someone puts it in my mouth or whether I do it myself. How it goes in does not diminsh or enlarge an infinite God, and again, from my own personal perpective, does not enlarge or diminish my belief.
[/quote]
In my opinion then, you would not be the average person. I see a huge difference in the amount of reverence shown by those who receive in the hand, and those who receive on the tongue. In general of course, because I don't mean to imply anything about anyone here.
At the Mass I attended in the Extraordinary Form, the reverence was so obvious that it was absolutely overwhelming. Enough that I nearly couldn't walk. It left me speechless. We just don't see that in our Masses right now, by and large. There are probably a lot of reasons, but one of them, and I believe an important one, is the allowance for Communion in the hand.
However if it doesn't affect you, even the tiniest bit, then I applaud you as an unusually focussed and astute individual and would suggest that you teach everybody you know to be this way.
On the other hand, can you really say that it doesn't affect you? Even the smallest bit? Should we not be pushing ourselves to be just that little bit better wherever we have a chance?

Only you can answer that, I guess.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 December 2009 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1261205697' post='2023063']
In my opinion then, you would not be the average person. I see a huge difference in the amount of reverence shown by those who receive in the hand, and those who receive on the tongue. In general of course, because I don't mean to imply anything about anyone here.
At the Mass I attended in the Extraordinary Form, the reverence was so obvious that it was absolutely overwhelming. Enough that I nearly couldn't walk. It left me speechless. We just don't see that in our Masses right now, by and large. There are probably a lot of reasons, but one of them, and I believe an important one, is the allowance for Communion in the hand.
However if it doesn't affect you, even the tiniest bit, then I applaud you as an unusually focussed and astute individual and would suggest that you teach everybody you know to be this way.
On the other hand, can you really say that it doesn't affect you? Even the smallest bit? Should we not be pushing ourselves to be just that little bit better wherever we have a chance?

Only you can answer that, I guess.
[/quote]

Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

[Pliny]

[quote]I see a huge difference in the amount of reverence shown by those who receive in the hand, and those who receive on the tongue.[/quote]

And I see more reverence among those who go to daily mass, and by those who dress respectfully and not wearing shorts and tennis shoes.

Are you implying that receiving on the tounge makes one reverent?

Or is it more likely that those who are already reverent are more inclined to receive on the tounge, and you're not noticing the reverent who receive in the hand?

If you would be forced to receive in the hand, or if it became the norm, would you be less reverent because of it?

[OraProMe]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='18 December 2009 - 04:11 AM' timestamp='1261127498' post='2022706']It rarely happens to me. Maybe you could try opening your mouth wider. I have noticed that tends to happen more with extraordinary ministers than priests. Maybe they get nervous. I don't know. [/quote]

I always used to bypass the EMHC and change lines if I was at the New Mass. One old EMHC shot me a dirty look once

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 December 2009 - 07:04 AM' timestamp='1261206283' post='2023067']
Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day
[/quote]
Got it covered.

[quote name='OraProMe' date='19 December 2009 - 10:08 AM' timestamp='1261217325' post='2023079']
I always used to bypass the EMHC and change lines if I was at the New Mass. One old EMHC shot me a dirty look once
[/quote]
I usually do as well. Especially if I have my son with me (rare if I don't), as I want him to receive a blessing.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='19 December 2009 - 05:25 AM' timestamp='1261218311' post='2023082']
Got it covered.
[/quote]

Thanks!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Pliny' date='19 December 2009 - 01:07 AM' timestamp='1261206450' post='2023069']
And I see more reverence among those who go to daily mass, and by those who dress respectfully and not wearing shorts and tennis shoes.

Are you implying that receiving on the tounge makes one reverent?

Or is it more likely that those who are already reverent are more inclined to receive on the tounge, and you're not noticing the reverent who receive in the hand?

If you would be forced to receive in the hand, or if it became the norm, would you be less reverent because of it?
[/quote]
Does receiving on the tongue make one reverent? You know, to some extent I think it does. To the same extent that receiving on the hand made the general population less reverent. As I said, it's certainly not the only thing that needs to be done, but I think it's one contributor. One among a few.

In fact I have been forced to receive in the hand. I do think it inhibits how reverent I am able to be. It's different. I'm not quite sure how to put it into words, but there is a drastic difference. That reason alone is enough for me to wish I could attend the Extraordinary Form every week, which is unfortunately not quite doable for me at this point.

[Pliny]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='19 December 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1261264435' post='2023215']
Does receiving on the tongue make one reverent? You know, to some extent I think it does. To the same extent that receiving on the hand made the general population less reverent. As I said, it's certainly not the only thing that needs to be done, but I think it's one contributor. One among a few.

In fact I have been forced to receive in the hand. I do think it inhibits how reverent I am able to be. It's different. I'm not quite sure how to put it into words, but there is a drastic difference. That reason alone is enough for me to wish I could attend the Extraordinary Form every week, which is unfortunately not quite doable for me at this point.
[/quote]

I can see your point.

I used to wear a suit and tie to Mass, and years ago stopped, and I think I was more reverent when I dressed well.

I can see that for some if they changed their habits about receiving Communion, it could cause them to lapse into an attidude of taking it for granted.

However, if I were to change from receiving on the tongue to in the hand, because I was asked to, and for reasons having to do with the health of fellow parishioners, I don't think in that instance I'd be any less reverent, because I would be very conscious of the change and why I was making it.

[Nihil Obstat]

My personal experience is eminently relevant at the moment. Personal experience makes me really want to receive on the tongue..... but just a few weeks after I began doing that, swine flu restrictions meant that this practice was "temporarily suspended". A week before last Sunday the restrictions were lifted, but my priest happens to either not notice or not care if someone wants to receive on the tongue, so I haven't been able to.

Anyway, point is that I've experienced both practices in the last two months. There is no question that for me it makes a difference. I was on the fence before, but now I can definitely say that I would like to see the indult removed. You mentioned people taking it for granted... maybe that would happen... but I know for sure we're taking it for granted the way it is now. It's far from ideal. The people of our Church in general need to be shaken around a bit... slapped upside the head. We (the people who know) need to teach everyone what we're all supposed to believe and why... because right now the average Catholic just doesn't know. It'll take a lot of different things at once, with proper catechesis being perhaps the most important, but I think Communion on the tongue needs to see a resurgence; I think it's exactly the direction we need to go.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 December 2009 - 07:28 AM' timestamp='1261466901' post='2024311']
The people of our Church in general need to be shaken around a bit... slapped upside the head. We (the people who know) need to teach everyone what we're all supposed to believe and why... because right now the average Catholic just doesn't know. It'll take a lot of different things at once, with proper catechesis being perhaps the most important, but I think Communion on the tongue needs to see a resurgence; I think it's exactly the direction we need to go.
[/quote]
I agree with you. And I'd like to see the indult removed, too, to be honest.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='22 December 2009 - 04:17 AM' timestamp='1261473456' post='2024322']
I agree with you. And I'd like to see the indult removed, too, to be honest.
[/quote]

I know that I certainly would like to see it removed.

[Archaeology cat]

At my parish, it seems that those of us who received on the tongue prior to the swine flu measures, continued to do so, and so the numbers of people receiving on the tongue didn't change much when the measures were put in place or were lifted.