Imputation Of Righteousness

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1254890721' post='1979686']
As a matter of fact Terra, I have read it TWICE, and highlighted passages all over the place (how do you think I knew the page number? I skimmed for my yellow highlights)
[/quote]

Oh, be careful with those things. I heard that too much sniffing can cause fundamentalism.

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='06 October 2009 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1254888880' post='1979662']
You do realize that you are CONSTANTLY judging people, which is something Jesus condemned, right?
[/quote]

Dear Forever Child,

You are probably thinking of the verse, "judge
not, that ye be not judged". However, it is perfectly biblical to say that we MAY make appraisals,
discenments, and even take corrective action. Remember, we are called "to judge righteous judgment" (Jn 7:24), and failure to do so is to be
negligent in a crucial aspect of our Christian living. Was Paul wrong
when he judged Peter in Galatians 2:11-21? No, he was not. Was he
wrong when he condemned such people as the Judaizers (also in
Galatians) or the pagans and Jews in Romans 2? No, he was not. He
furthermore taught the Corinthians that they were to judge sinful
believers and leave people outside the church to God (1 Cor 5:12-13).

We are told to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. How else are we to discern if they are imposters--if we don't JUDGE THEM?

Actually, when you stop to think about it, if we didn't judge, nobody
would even forgive anyone for wrongs they had done. We only forgive
people for what we blame them for and we blame them only after we have
judged them.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 01:06 AM' timestamp='1254891964' post='1979702']
Dear Forever Child, [/quote]

Always remember, you're not alone. Plenty of people have dyslexia and do just fine after learning certain techniques.

[quote] However, it is perfectly biblical to say that we MAY make appraisals,
discenments, and even take corrective action. [/quote]

You are not making appraisals, you are blatantly judging people - sometimes having the audacity to question someone's salvation.

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 October 2009 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1254891524' post='1979698']
You're twisting her words, for one thing, but I would guess that she viewed being forced into public speaking and traveling as a sort of purgation on earth... among the unimaginable purgation she was already experiencing in the form of her spiritual torment.
[/quote]

There you go again using that old stand-by, "You're twisting her words". As usual, no proof! I tell you, you people don't intimidate me one....little....bit. This is a debate forum, not a "kick the guy in the pants and accuse the adversary with no evidence for support" circus. Your credibility is near ground zero. I stand behind those quotes because they are clear as the light of day and are an accurate representation of the typical Catholic's leaning on GOOD WORKS to open heaven's gates. And Selah, old chum, if you are reading this, I did see what you wrote, but I am addressing the issue of works in my debate with Raphael, so will not give you a sermon here. Protestants already AGREE that faith and works go hand in hand--- always have---always will. By you're making that statement, you prove you simply do not understand what we mean by "Faith Alone".
My sensitive fingertips are done for the night.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Stormstopper

[dairygirl4u2c]

it's pretty obvious that this is open for interpretation. that it's been such a lingering issue for such strong intellectuals says a lot. i mean i know it's not definitive proof, im just sayin.
i think storm thinks getting passionate for the subject means he's right. (a matter of speaking.. literally, i think he thinks getting passionate is what you do when you're right etc. actually, it just makes him look overzealous and extremist. hallmarks of someone ya dont take seriously.
there's always one in the crowd, including the phatmass crowd.
they come and go though. as im sure storm will.

Edited October 7, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c

[Vincent Vega]

Well, Shirley Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church sure get fired up! That must mean they're right!

Where's the sign up for the funeral protests? I'd better get a crackin' if I wanna get to heaven.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1254892662' post='1979712']
There you go again using that old stand-by, "You're twisting her words". As usual, no proof! I tell you, you people don't intimidate me one....little....bit. This is a debate forum, not a "kick the guy in the pants and accuse the adversary with no evidence for support" circus. Your credibility is near ground zero. I stand behind those quotes because they are clear as the light of day and are an accurate representation of the typical Catholic's leaning on GOOD WORKS to open heaven's gates.
[/quote]
Here's my proof, guy. Your own words. (My emphasis)
[quote]She also said, "I have said to Jesus that if I don't go to heaven for anything else, I will be going to heaven for all the travelling, with all the publicity, because[u] [b]it has purified me and sacrificed me[/b] [/u]and made me really ready to go to heaven." (Priests for Life Newsletter, 2/94).[/quote]
Convenient that you just happened to remove that bit. Sorta changes the meaning of her words, doesn't it?

Honest quotations = intellectual honesty = epic win.

She regarded it as purgation, which I explicitly stated above. Quote me if you want to make sure it's proven.

Her traveling and speaking was a sacrifice. She suffered in it for God. That is what makes her saintlike, not the fact that she converted perhaps thousands or tens of thousands, or that she's inspired the entire Catholic world, or even the fact that she comforted the sick and dying with no thought to herself.

My credibility remains irreproachable, thanks.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Nihil Obstat

[dairygirl4u2c]

even if she didnt say it made her purged for heaven... i dont think anyone would need to prove it or assume more. it's the natural interptretation to think a catholic means 'purged'. it's obviously open for interpretation, so why not go with teh natural interpretation. regardless of any clarifications (which were made anyway

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='07 October 2009 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1254893050' post='1979716']
it's pretty obvious that this is open for interpretation. that it's been such a lingering issue for such strong intellectuals says a lot. i mean i know it's not definitive proof, im just sayin.
i think storm thinks getting passionate for the subject means he's right. (a matter of speaking.. literally, i think he thinks getting passionate is what you do when you're right etc. actually, it just makes him look overzealous and extremist. hallmarks of someone ya dont take seriously.
there's always one in the crowd, including the phatmass crowd.
they come and go though. as im sure storm will.
[/quote]

Oh thank you dairy-person for that unsolicited opinion. It doesn't surprise me though, because the "other jesus" you believe in per 2 Cor 11:4 is definitely the type to welcome stagnant, lukewarm religious persons into his embrace, so you will fit right in when he calls. The true Christ of Scripture however, was zealous----oh wait, let me capitalize that for you----ZEALOUS in His activities (Ps 69:9, Ps 119:139,Jn 2:7). You are the perfect example of someone who has nothing to say, provides no proof that anything I've said is inaccurate, and knowing you are empty-handed, decide then to go for character assasination so you can go to bed thinking you have accomplished something. Definitely the hallmark of someone any logical thinking person......does not take seriously.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Stormstopper

[zabbazooey]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1254895012' post='1979729']
Oh thank you dairy-person for that unsolicited opinion. It doesn't surprise me though, because the "other jesus" you believe in per 2 Cor 11:4 is definitely the type to welcome stagnant, lukewarm religious persons into his embrace, so you will fit right in when he calls. The true Christ of Scripture however, was zealous----oh wait, let me capitalize that for you----ZEALOUS in His activities (Ps 69:9, Ps 119:139,Jn 2:7). You are the perfect example of someone who has nothing to say, provides no proof that anything I've said is inaccurate, and knowing you are empty-handed, decide then to go for character assasination so you can go to bed thinking you have accomplished something. Definitely the hallmark of someone any logical thinking person......does not take seriously.
[/quote]

I know I go to bed smiling whenever I insult someone on the internet.

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='07 October 2009 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1254893372' post='1979721']
Here's my proof, guy. Your own words. (My emphasis)

Convenient that you just happened to remove that bit. Sorta changes the meaning of her words, doesn't it?

Honest quotations = intellectual honesty = epic win.

She regarded it as purgation, which I explicitly stated above. Quote me if you want to make sure it's proven.

Her traveling and speaking was a sacrifice. She suffered in it for God. That is what makes her saintlike, not the fact that she converted perhaps thousands or tens of thousands, or that she's inspired the entire Catholic world, or even the fact that she comforted the sick and dying with no thought to herself.

My credibility remains irreproachable, thanks.
[/quote]


You will be receiving no apology from me Nihl....
I knew EXACTLY what she said and didn't "conveniently" leave it out as if I was unaware or trying to hide it. One of the main points in my debate on justification elsewhere on the forum, is that the RENOVATION or PURIFICATION of the soul is antagonistic to our justification, and is not the GROUND of our entry into heaven as M.T. so foolishly believed as words could not be more clear: "IF I DON'T GO TO HEAVEN FOR ANYTHING ELSE, I WILL BE GOING TO HEAVEN FOR ALL THE TRAVELLING...". Your credibility is in the dumps because you are sorry she ever made the statement and are doing everything you can to make it mean something else, but it will never work.

[zabbazooey]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1254896160' post='1979732']
You will be receiving no apology from me Nihl....
I knew EXACTLY what she said and didn't "conveniently" leave it out as if I was unaware or trying to hide it. One of the main points in my debate on justification elsewhere on the forum, is that the RENOVATION or PURIFICATION of the soul is antagonistic to our justification, and is not the GROUND of our entry into heaven as M.T. so foolishly believed as words could not be more clear: "IF I DON'T GO TO HEAVEN FOR ANYTHING ELSE, I WILL BE GOING TO HEAVEN FOR ALL THE TRAVELLING...". Your credibility is in the dumps because you are sorry she ever made the statement and are doing everything you can to make it mean something else, but it will never work.
[/quote]

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/1390961334_b1b1a969ca.jpg[/img]

On a serious note, if you even took a few moments to look in depth into Mother Teresa's life, you would realize how erroneous your statement is. She was an incredibly holy, humble person. The Church doesn't just beatify anyone.

You truly are taking it out of context and you KNOW (sry caps lock) it and you've been caught. Therefore, you are hanging on to this one isolated quote for dear life and are being stubborn.

[zabbazooey]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='06 October 2009 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1254866141' post='1979445']
Dominican,

When correcting the Galatians, Paul said, "Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?"

The gospel is serious business and we see the apostle "disputing" in no less than 8 places in the book of Acts. I will send you the verses upon request. And Jesus said, "woe unto you if all men speak well of you". If everyone thinks you are the sweetest person, there must be a little something wrong with your ministry, Domini. There is going to be opposition, face it. Do you think John the Baptist was wrong to begin his ministry with, "You Brood of Vipers"?
Sometimes, stinging language will get people to check thinks out for themselves. You call me arrogant? I'm not saying anything that cannot be checked out for yourself and there are many falsehoods being tooted on this site. What would you have me say? "Darling, allow me to put a rose in my mouth and bat my eyes while I tell you where you have erred?"
You appear to be intimidated because I've studied the issues and have not come to the same conclusions as you. Oh sure--- There are many nicer Protestants who have NOT studied the issues and they will not offend you in the least. But when somebody HAS studied and finds serious wrongs in contradiction to Scripture, then CORRECTION is in order. We are to "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine" saith the Scripture. If you disagree with that, then your problem is not with me, but with God. Kindly tell me what prophet in the Bible exemplies Mother Teresa?

As for that very nice lady, I can only judge her by the words that came out of her mouth, and when one reads her comments, I must conclude she was indeed religious, BUT LOST.


[font="Arial"]"Mother" Teresa, and those who work with her, never try to convert to Christ the dying people for whom they care. Instead. She said, "If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are. ... What God is in your mind you must accept" (from Mother Teresa: Her People and Her Work , by Desmond Doig, p. 156).[/font]

She also said, "I have said to Jesus that if I don't go to heaven for anything else, I will be going to heaven for all the travelling, with all the publicity, because it has purified me and sacrificed me and made me really ready to go to heaven." (Priests for Life Newsletter, 2/94).

Consequently, M.T. did not encourage those she was dying to seek Christ, but rather "WHATEVER".......
and to further make such a statement that her entrance into eternal beautitude was based on her good deeds, is anti-ethical to the gospel, and unfortunately, we must conclude she was unsaved. Remember the parable of the 10 virgins, 5 foolish and 5 wise? The foolish were always in good company, had high morals, and were even looking out for the Bridgroom. How many untold thousands does that apply to today? Quite a few. How do YOU know, DominicanSoul, that you do not fall into the category of the 5 foolish, who when the Bridgegroom appeared, were shut out of the marriage feast (heaven)? How do YOU know that you will not be there on Judgement Day and be one of the MANY who will be saying, "Didn't we do many wonderful works in your name?" as we read in Matthew. But they were told, "I never knew you....depart from me!". These were RELIGIOUS people, not atheists. And by the way, they couldn't have been Protestants, because we, for the most part, do NOT plan to parade our good deeds before the Judgment throne. But Catholics are ready with their Samsonite suitcase, full of good deeds on their way to heaven waiting for Christ to let them in. I say Christ was referring primarily to Catholics there, because by process of elimination, the majority of those who are doing good deeds in the NAME of Christ and are counting on those good deeds to open heaven's gate, are Catholics! It's a somber thought that I think you ought to give consideration to. Your trust must be IN CHRIST ALONE, what He has done FOR you, and NOT what the Holy Spirit does THROUGH you in your sanctified life. The minute you place anything in addition to the finished work of Christ as a basis for your salvation, you have embraced another gospel. THAT is why these "good people" mentioned above, were not let in.
[/quote]

PS....looked up some of those fantastic, "objective" quotes you so kindly provided to us. One of them and its' preceding text (including Mother Teresa in quotes, when previously in the [b]same[/b] post you did not put "Mother" in quotes) were ripped DIRECTLY from a vehemently anti-Catholic website (source: http://www.scionofzion.com/teresa.htm )

And you maintain you're not taking her quotes out of context? Hardly. You lose all credibility with your Mother (or "Mother" - whichever way you feel like copying and pasting it) Teresa argument.

Edited October 7, 2009 by zabbazooey

[zabbazooey]

And if you're going to present an entire argument on Mother Teresa's Christian character by taking a snippet of an [b]entire speech[/b] she gave, at least post the entire speech so the context can be presented correctly:

SOURCE: http://www.epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_standing_for_life/Mother_Teresa_s_Speech.shtml

Please read this, Stormstopper. Thank you and God bless.

Edited October 7, 2009 by zabbazooey

[Selah]

[quote]Always remember, you're not alone[/quote]

For I am here with you

Though your far away

I am here to staaaaaaaaaay