Atheists At It Again

[Brother Adam]

[url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,561081,00.html"]Shroud of Turin A Fake?[/url]
[quote]
ROME — An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.

"We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday.

Carbon dating tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Arizona in 1988 caused a sensation by dating it from between 1260 and 1390. Sceptics said it was a hoax, possibly made to attract the profitable medieval pilgrimage business.

But scientists have thus far been at a loss to explain how the image was left on the cloth.

Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages.

They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face.

The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.

[b]The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.[/b]

The history of the Shroud is long and controversial.

After surfacing in the Middle East and France, it was brought by Italy's former royal family, the Savoys, to their seat in Turin in 1578. In 1983 ex-King Umberto II bequeathed it to the late Pope John Paul.
[b]
Garlaschelli received funding for his work by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics but said it had no effect on his results.
[/b]
"Money has no odor," he said. "This was done scientifically. If the Church wants to fund me in the future, here I am."
[/quote]

What do the atheists plan on proving. The Church already gives no official measure of authenticity of the original shroud. Seems like an exercise in redundancy.

[Nihil Obstat]

I think it speaks volumes that even this article feels obligated to mention that the Catholic Church doesn't say anything about whether it's authentic or not.

[eagle_eye222001]

The atheists will attract those who make the mistake of putting their faith in things like the Shroud of Turin even though the Church says otherwise.

I am a bit surprised that they couldn't figure out how the image could have possibly appeared earlier, as the process described in the article seems fairly basic. Either they are leaving out some complex steps or the scientists tens of years ago who couldn't figure how the image got on there did a very poor job.

[Winchester]

I don't get why they care.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Winchester' date='06 October 2009 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1254850335' post='1979213']
I don't get why they care.
[/quote]
Werd... +2

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Winchester' date='06 October 2009 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1254850335' post='1979213']
I don't get why they care.
[/quote]

They're not as comfortable as they present themselves to be. They are worried about being wrong. Therefore, they need to keep finding ways to prove the other side wrong. Even if their idea of proof is not the proof we offer.

[CatherineM]

A true atheist wouldn't care. They'd spend their time (what little they think they have) on something else.

[Didacus]

The fat that it took centuries to even come close to reproducing the shroud speaks in contradiction to the purpose underlined by the 'discovery'.

Sounds like another 'attention' graber to me.



The carbon testing mentionned in the article are hotly disputed by the way.



And finally, wehter the shroud is fake or not makes no difference to a truly faithful Catholic.
so and lets move on.

[Didacus]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='06 October 2009 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1254850968' post='1979222']
They're not as comfortable as they present themselves to be. They are worried about being wrong. Therefore, they need to keep finding ways to prove the other side wrong. Even if their idea of proof is not the proof we offer.
[/quote]

Declaring one's self as an atheist is just as much an act of faith as declaring one's self a believer.

To the atheist, it is equally impossible to disprove the existence of God as it is to prove it. There can only be talk of probability. Thus, why Pascal considered his 'wager' the strongest proof of God's existence.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Didacus

[Sojourner]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='06 October 2009 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1254853497' post='1979271']
A true atheist wouldn't care. They'd spend their time (what little they think they have) on something else.
[/quote]
This.

My theory is that "atheists" who go out of their way to attack Christianity have some inkling deep down inside that it's true. They're bothered because atheism doesn't quite fit, so they try to make themselves feel surer about it by attempting to discredit what they perceive as a threat.

[veggietales]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 October 2009 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1254857757' post='1979348']
This.

My theory is that "atheists" who go out of their way to attack Christianity have some inkling deep down inside that it's true. They're bothered because atheism doesn't quite fit, so they try to make themselves feel surer about it by attempting to discredit what they perceive as a threat.
[/quote]

I agree.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1254857757' post='1979348']
This.

My theory is that "atheists" who go out of their way to attack Christianity have some inkling deep down inside that it's true. They're bothered because atheism doesn't quite fit, so they try to make themselves feel surer about it by attempting to discredit what they perceive as a threat.
[/quote]

If they were secure in their atheism, they'd go about their lives quietly.

[Chestertonian]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='06 October 2009 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1254850968' post='1979222']
They're not as comfortable as they present themselves to be. They are worried about being wrong. Therefore, they need to keep finding ways to prove the other side wrong. Even if their idea of proof is not the proof we offer.
[/quote]

I agree. I think a lot of people who classify themselves as "atheists" are actually agnostic.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='06 October 2009 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1254853497' post='1979271']
A true atheist wouldn't care. They'd spend their time (what little they think they have) on something else.
[/quote]


[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 October 2009 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1254857757' post='1979348']
This.

My theory is that "atheists" who go out of their way to attack Christianity have some inkling deep down inside that it's true. They're bothered because atheism doesn't quite fit, so they try to make themselves feel surer about it by attempting to discredit what they perceive as a threat.
[/quote]
Bingo.

I honestly don't care about religious beliefs when it comes down to whether or not they're true. I argue, yes, but only against things that I see as illogical, not for the sake of attacking Catholicism. Atheists who go out of their way to attack religion for the sake of attacking it are just as insecure as anyone, and it bothers me.

[Varg]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='06 October 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1254850091' post='1979210']
The [color="#FF0000"]atheists[/color] will attract those who make the mistake of putting their [color="#FF0000"]faith[/color] in things like the Shroud of Turin even though the Church says otherwise.
[/quote]

[XIX]

[quote name='Varg' date='06 October 2009 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1254864199' post='1979435']

[/quote]
I don't get it.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Varg' date='06 October 2009 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1254864199' post='1979435']

[/quote]

Um I wasn't talking about the faith of atheists. I was talking about how atheists would attract the religious people who let most of their faith rest in items such as the Shroud of Turin.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='06 October 2009 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1254857757' post='1979348']
This.

My theory is that "atheists" who go out of their way to attack Christianity have some inkling deep down inside that it's true. They're bothered because atheism doesn't quite fit, so they try to make themselves feel surer about it by attempting to discredit what they perceive as a threat.
[/quote]

What I said.

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='06 October 2009 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1254850968' post='1979222']
They're not as comfortable as they present themselves to be. They are worried about being wrong. Therefore, they need to keep finding ways to prove the other side wrong. Even if their idea of proof is not the proof we offer.
[/quote]

[Varg]

So, years after it was discovered that the Turin Shroud was probably a fake, some people did extensive research and discovered that the Turin Shroud is, in fact, probably a fake.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' date='07 October 2009 - 05:34 AM' timestamp='1254911640' post='1979767']
So, years after it was discovered that the Turin Shroud was probably a fake, some people did extensive research and discovered that the Turin Shroud is, in fact, probably a fake.
[/quote]

And why does that matter? It is still an icon of the Passion of our Lord.