todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Please read in full and text evidence presented before giving objective responses. With much of the Christian world all making good cases for a Friday crucifixion, Thurday crucifixion and even a Wednesday crucifixion, I decided to take it upon myself to test all that I could find on this topic and put it all to the test using the Prophecies as a baseline for truth regarding this topic. What I have found is pretty solid and amazing yet it poses new questions that have been answered by much of my findings. I am however curious what your answers will be to my questions but first i would like you to review the answers I ojbectively present in the link referenced study so that you will be able to present why your understanding is more correct than what I have discovered. My questions are as follows: Why does the bible in it's current state of Preservation not illustrate the fulfillment of the 4 day prophecy in Exodus 12. In exodus 12 the Lamb (Christ) was to be chosen by the people on the tenth day of the first month. On the 14th day Christ (the Lamb) was to be killed. The only event that fits this symbolism of the Lamb being chosen by the people is the triumphal entry, yet the bible does not illustrate this being fulfilled since the anointing At Bethany according to John places the triumphal entry on the 9th Day of the first month. Both Matt and Mark place the anointing Event 2 days before Passover (12 Nissan) and if the triumphal entry happened the next day (13 Nissan), you still do not have the Lamb being chosen by the people on the 10th day per the Law of Moses which Christ claimed to have fulfilled. There is a non canonized Gospel that was found in 1877 in a monastery in Tibet which illustrates exodus 12 in fulfillment. Why does the bible have Errors when people today claim it is infallible? By making false statements are they in spirit and in truth? Can they not hear God's voice which does tell truth and the full truth? If the official story regarding the history of the 4 gospels was truth why is this study able to give solid credibile evidence that the 4 bible gospels came from a single written gospel source? Here is a link that I have built which causes me to ask questions and provide the information which provokes the questions. Can you find any page of testimony presented that is not telling the truth based on what is presented? By page 36, do you believe the information presented illustrates accurately enough why the Christian world is divided and in a state of denominational confusion? Can you answer any of these questions with certain truth after reviewing the information which provokes the questions? Are your answers speculation or as God’s child did he speak the truth in your ear to answer these question? [url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf[/url] [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font]
cmotherofpirl Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 We don't have any confusion over the crucifixion. The Church doesn't have a issue over it, and nobody has to read a 55 page document to understand it. The Church was there, the Apostles recorded it, the Church has preserved it so its not an issue. Jesus died on Friday - day one, his body was in the tomb on Saturday - day two, until Sunday morning the beginning of day three. What is so difficult about that? No its not 3 full days, but so what, whats the problem? One must remember the Scriptures are a library of the collected works of the Old Testament and the Church, not a numerological puzzle to be solved.
Resurrexi Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='06 October 2009 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1254880783' post='1979582'] If the official story regarding the history of the 4 gospels was truth why is this study able to give solid credibile evidence that the 4 bible gospels came from a single written gospel source? [/quote] The argument can be made that the synoptics came from a single written source, but no reputable scholar claims that John came from the same source as Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1254892774' post='1979715'] We don't have any confusion over the crucifixion. The Church doesn't have a issue over it, and nobody has to read a 55 page document to understand it. The Church was there, the Apostles recorded it, the Church has preserved it so its not an issue. Jesus died on Friday - day one, his body was in the tomb on Saturday - day two, until Sunday morning the beginning of day three. What is so difficult about that? No its not 3 full days, but so what, whats the problem? One must remember the Scriptures are a library of the collected works of the Old Testament and the Church, not a numerological puzzle to be solved. [/quote] The true worshppers of God will worship in spirit and in truth not rumor and in speculation. The children of God will hear God's voice. Did God give you what to say? How can you say for sure that your explination is solid when this study shared exposes traditional flaws.. The Christian has failed to take the gospel to the world because they don't really know the gospel. They have partial recordings of the gospel but they lack the spirit of god putting the correct words in their mouths to speak. Even Christ did nothing of himself unless it was given to him from heaven. You may want to carefully review the Errors exposed by putting catholic doctrine (bible NT) up agaist real time. To say the bible is perfect is a lie over exposed by this study. God Bless
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='07 October 2009 - 05:45 AM' timestamp='1254912356' post='1979769'] The argument can be made that the synoptics came from a single written source, but no reputable scholar claims that John came from the same source as Matthew, Mark, and Luke. [/quote] Most reputable scholars have not tested nor discovered what I am objectivly presenting in this study. you may test for yourself what I have found or go on the lacking reputable studies of the past that fell short of making a solid case for Christ as the Messiah. God Bless
HisChildForever Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 It would be fun to lock you and Storm in a room together.
mortify Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 The phrase "three days and three nights" is Hebrew idiom for three days. It's not meant to be taken as an exact 72hr block of time passing by.
Selah Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 I'm pretty sure I'm not going to lose sleep over this.
cmotherofpirl Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1254916651' post='1979786'] The true worshppers of God will worship in spirit and in truth not rumor and in speculation. The children of God will hear God's voice. Did God give you what to say? How can you say for sure that your explination is solid when this study shared exposes traditional flaws.. The Christian has failed to take the gospel to the world because they don't really know the gospel. They have partial recordings of the gospel but they lack the spirit of god putting the correct words in their mouths to speak. Even Christ did nothing of himself unless it was given to him from heaven. You may want to carefully review the Errors exposed by putting catholic doctrine (bible NT) up agaist real time. To say the bible is perfect is a lie over exposed by this study. God Bless [/quote] How do you define who the true worshippers are? What are your qualifications to decide who they are? Someone who thinks they hear God's voice, or the record of the people who actually witnessed the life of Jesus Christ? There are no traditional flaws because you have raised a strawman - there is no issue of time for the Church, only for you. You are trying to solve a non-existant puzzle. Christianity is taking the Gospel to the world every single day, it hasn't failed, its simply up against our sinful nature, its an uphill battle. Scripture is not a newspaper account of an event, its not an early version of CNN, nor does it claim to be. The evangelists were not concerned with exact timelines, but with recording the work of salvation they had witnessed. Big difference. The Gospels are the Word of God perserved by the Church for the Church, there is no contradiction in the fact. Stop looking at the trees, and check out the forest.
Winchester Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 2,000 years of error solved by a guy who can't get "its" right.
Selah Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 [quote]The children of God will hear God's voice[/quote] Are you hearing God's voice, or what you think God is telling you?
Winchester Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 "Blest art thou when thous artest snarked at in my name."
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1254925380' post='1979823'] How do you define who the true worshippers are? What are your qualifications to decide who they are? Someone who thinks they hear God's voice, or the record of the people who actually witnessed the life of Jesus Christ? There are no traditional flaws because you have raised a strawman - there is no issue of time for the Church, only for you. You are trying to solve a non-existant puzzle. Christianity is taking the Gospel to the world every single day, it hasn't failed, its simply up against our sinful nature, its an uphill battle. Scripture is not a newspaper account of an event, its not an early version of CNN, nor does it claim to be. The evangelists were not concerned with exact timelines, but with recording the work of salvation they had witnessed. Big difference. The Gospels are the Word of God perserved by the Church for the Church, there is no contradiction in the fact. Stop looking at the trees, and check out the forest. [/quote] There are promises made by Christ to the true worshippers. they will be in spirit and in truth. Both spirit and truth implies that there will be no error found. They will walk in the day and no longer stumble in the night... This is truth vs error. Christ said his followers will do all that he could do and more.. is this you? When you talk to God does he answer or does the statue that you kneel before just stare blankly back at you? God tells you how to know if you are his. It's up to you to be honest with yourself if you meet these qualifications. God Bless
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Selah' date='07 October 2009 - 09:38 AM' timestamp='1254926281' post='1979828'] Are you hearing God's voice, or what you think God is telling you? [/quote] God Told me what to put into the study that you will find in the link. Does the link speak according to the Laws of God and testimony of Jesus? This is how you will know if God sent me to share with you. <H3 class=search-header>[url="/passage/?search=Isaiah+8:20&version=NKJV"]Isaiah 8:20[/url]</H3>To the [b]law[/b] and to the [b]testimony[/b]! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Most Christians want to claim Christ did away with the Law.. yet this is a requirement for salvation. We can read the doctrines of men all we want and in many cases they testify of God.. We still must come to God. You may find the highlights below to be familiar. [b]From the Ages of Ages is the Eternal Thought, and the Thought is the Word, and the Word is the Act, and these Three are one in the Eternal Law,[/b][b] [/b][b]and the Law is with God and the Law proceeds from God.[/b][b] [/b][b]All things are created by Law and without it is not anything created that existeth[/b][b]. [/b][b]In the [/b][b]Word is Life and Substance, the Fire and the Light. The Love and the Wisdom, are One for the Salvation of all. And the Light shineth in darkness[/b][b] [/b]and the darkness concealeth it not. The Word is the one Life-giving Fire, which shining into the world becometh the fire and light of every soul that entereth into the world. I am in the world, and the world is in Me,[b] [/b][b]and the world knoweth it not.[/b][b] [/b]I come to my own House, and my friends receive Me not. But as many as receive and obey, to them is given the power to become the Sons and Daughters of God, even to them who believe in the Holy Name, who are born--not of the will of the blood and flesh, but of God. And the Word is incarnate and dwelleth among us, whose Glory we beheld, full of Grace. Behold the Goodness, and the Truth and the Beauty of God!
cmotherofpirl Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1254954221' post='1980290'] There are promises made by Christ to the true worshippers. they will be in spirit and in truth. Both spirit and truth implies that there will be no error found. They will walk in the day and no longer stumble in the night... This is truth vs error. Christ said his followers will do all that he could do and more.. is this you? When you talk to God does he answer or does the statue that you kneel before just stare blankly back at you? God tells you how to know if you are his. It's up to you to be honest with yourself if you meet these qualifications. God Bless [/quote] There are promises made by Christ to his Church: that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. Individuals can be deceived, the Church cannot, Spirit and Truth are found in her, as is Apostolic Tradition and Authority. Worship is found IN the Church. A statue is a visual reminder of the greater reality, if it did anymore than just be a statue it would be headline news. Do you have a problem with reminders? God answers us in His own way and His own time, and sometimes no answer IS the answer for the time being. God abides.
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1254955694' post='1980314'] There are promises made by Christ to his Church: that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. Individuals can be deceived, the Church cannot, Spirit and Truth are found in her, as is Apostolic Tradition and Authority. Worship is found IN the Church. A statue is a visual reminder of the greater reality, if it did anymore than just be a statue it would be headline news. Do you have a problem with reminders? God answers us in His own way and His own time, and sometimes no answer IS the answer for the time being. God abides. [/quote] The gates of hell will not prevail agains the church.... Most define church as congregation. Some a denomination. Christ defines it as those in spirit and in truth. Is your testimony for Christ solid because God puts the words in your mouth to speak. Have you ever speculated or imagined truth. I know i use to and now i know why imagination and speculation is false witness. it was Said by someone that Friday = day one, Saturday = day two, Suday = day three and they were aware that it was not three days and three nights. What this concept truly reveals is half the truth which is Satan's perfect lie. Sad part is that much of the world believes the lie and tries to speculate a justification for the lie instead of understanding God's word to be truth. Christ spoke the word of God when he waid 3 days and 3 nights. Does not God speak and then fulfill? We can debate fruitlessly all week and all year for that matter and what will this profit you if you are not born again? Seek to find if my words are true. You want to claim what I say is false then bare witness by illustrating any page of the time presented at the link to be in Error. I know why page 37 illustrates the world of Christianity is divided. It could not be more clear by exposing half truths of deception.. it's all part of understanding the resurrection of the sons and daughters of God. [url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf[/url] I share this information not to boast, but to present truth in a manner that is consistant with common sense and basic reality while restoring lost credibility to the Messiah we both want to serve. You will find nothing negative in this study regarding Christ if this is who you love. if you love another this study may be offensive to you. Question you have to ask is did the gates of hell prevail against what you have made to be your savior? God's word is forever and can never be broken. if you have made a book God's word then you will never know the word for you must still come to God even though the testimonies of men testify of God. God Bless
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1254955694' post='1980314'] There are promises made by Christ to his Church: that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. Individuals can be deceived, the Church cannot, Spirit and Truth are found in her, as is Apostolic Tradition and Authority. Worship is found IN the Church. A statue is a visual reminder of the greater reality, if it did anymore than just be a statue it would be headline news. Do you have a problem with reminders? God answers us in His own way and His own time, and sometimes no answer IS the answer for the time being. God abides. [/quote] Here are places in history where Christ defines his church aside from the traditions of men who have made denominational Hierarchy's their church. Historical testimonies illustrating Christ's church Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called Jesus and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me; what hast thou done? Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servant’s fight that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a King then? Jesus answered; Thou sayest that I am, yea, a King I am. To this end was I born and for this cause came I unto the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate said unto him, what is truth? [u]Jesus said, Truth is from heaven. Pilate said, Then truth is not on earth. Jesus said unto Pilate, Believe thou, that truth is on earth amongst those who receive and obey it. They are of the truth who judge righteously.[/u] And when he had heard this, he went out again unto the Jews and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders he answered them nothing. Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not, how many things they witness against thee? And he answered them never a word, insomuch that the governor marveled greatly, and again he said unto them, I find no fault in this man. [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Receive ye the Holy Ghost; preach the Gospel, and announce ye unto all nations; the resurrection of the Son of Man. 7. Teach ye the holy law of love which I have delivered unto you. And whosoever forsake their sins, they are remitted unto them, and whosoever continue in their sins they are retained unto them. 8. Baptize them who believe and repent, bless and anoint them, and offer ye the pure Oblation of the fruits of the earth, which I have appointed unto you for a Memorial of me. [/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]AND after seven days again, his disciples were within the Upper Room; then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in their midst and said, Peace be unto you, and he was known unto them in the holy Memorial. And he said unto them. Love ye one another and all the creatures of God. Yet I say unto you, not all are men, who are in the form of man. Are they men or women in the image of God whose ways are ways of violence, of oppression and wrong, who choose a lie rather than the truth? Nay, verily, till they are born again, and receive the Spirit of Love and Wisdom within their hearts. Then only are they sons and daughters of Israel , and being of Israel they are children of God, And for this cause came I into the world, and for this I have suffered at the hands of sinners. These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the law of Moses and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead after the third day. And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem . And ye are witnesses of these things.[/size][/font] [size="3"][font="Calibri"]And Jesus said unto them, Ye have heard what men in the world say concerning me, but whom do ye say that I am? Peter rose up with Andrew his brother and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, who descendeth from heaven and dwelleth in the hearts of them who believe and obey unto righteousness. And the rest rose up and said, each after his own manner, These words are true, so we believe. 3. And Jesus answered them saying, Blessed are ye my twelve who believe, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but the spirit of God which dwelleth in you. I indeed am the way, the Truth and the Life; and the Truth understandeth all things.[b] 4. All truth is in God, and I bear witness unto the truth. I am the true Rock, and on this Rock do I build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it, and out of this Rock shall flow rivers of living water to give life to the peoples of the earth. [/b]5. Ye are my chosen twelve. In me, the Head and Corner stone, are the twelve foundations of my house builded on the rock, and on you in me shall my Church be built, and in truth and righteousness shall my Church be established. 6. And ye shall sit on twelve thrones and send forth light and truth to all the twelve tribes of Israel after the Spirit, and I will be with you, even unto the end of the world.[b] 7. But there shall arise after you, men of perverse minds who shall through ignorance or through craft, suppress many things which I have spoken unto you, and lay to me things which I never taught, sowing tares among the good wheat which I have given you to sow in the world. 8. Then shall the truth of God endure the contradiction of sinners, for thus it hath been, and thus it will be. But the time cometh when the things which they have hidden shall be revealed and made known, and the truth shall make free those which were bound. [/b]9. One is your Master, all ye are brethren, and one is not greater than another in the place which I have given unto you, for ye have one Master, even Christ, who is over you and with you and in you, and there is no inequality among my twelve, or their fellows. 10. All are equally near unto me. Strive ye not therefore for the first place, for ye are all first, because ye are the foundation stones and pillars of the Church, built on the truth which is in me and in you, and the truth and the law shall ye establish for all, as shall be given unto you. 11. Verily when ye and your fellows agree together touching anything in my Name, I am in the midst of you and with you. 12.[b] Woe is the time when the spirit of the world entereth into the Church, and my doctrines and precepts are made void through the corruption of men and of women. Woe is the world when the Light is hidden. Woe is the world when these things shall be. [/b][/font][/size]
todd_vetter33 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 [quote name='Selah' date='07 October 2009 - 09:22 AM' timestamp='1254925356' post='1979822'] I'm pretty sure I'm not going to lose sleep over this. Devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Queen of Heaven and Earth! [/quote] I found this to be an interesting quote about the Queen of Heaven.. This was a pagan God given a Christian application. Jeremiah 7:17-19 [b][sup][size="2"]17[/size][/sup][/b] Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? [sup][b][size="2"]18[/size][/b][/sup] The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and [i]they[/i] pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger. [sup][b][size="2"]19[/size][/b][/sup] Do they provoke Me to anger?” says the LORD. “[i]Do they[/i] not [i]provoke[/i] themselves, to the shame of their own faces?” In jerimiah 44 God promised to punish the isrealites in in Egypt for worshipping this queen of heaven... Why does the Catholic church still carry this tradition with only giving it a Christian application? I know what God says about this but i'm curious about your answer and will your answer vary from anyone else willing to answer?
eagle_eye222001 Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1254959389' post='1980357'] I found this to be an interesting quote about the Queen of Heaven.. This was a pagan God given a Christian application. Jeremiah 7:17-19 [b][sup][size="2"]17[/size][/sup][/b] Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? [sup][b][size="2"]18[/size][/b][/sup] The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and [i]they[/i] pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger. [sup][b][size="2"]19[/size][/b][/sup] Do they provoke Me to anger?” says the LORD. “[i]Do they[/i] not [i]provoke[/i] themselves, to the shame of their own faces?” In jerimiah 44 God promised to punish the isrealites in in Egypt for worshipping this queen of heaven... Why does the Catholic church still carry this tradition with only giving it a Christian application? I know what God says about this but i'm curious about your answer and will your answer vary from anyone else willing to answer? [/quote] The Catholic Church does not honor the moon or Asherah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Heaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_%28antiquity%29
Selah Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) The Blessed Virgin Mary is not Asherah. She is the Mother of God and the Blessed Theotokos. She is Queen of Heaven, crowned by Her Son. Edited October 8, 2009 by Selah
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