Christian Confusion On Crucifixion

October 9, 2009

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1255099701' post='1981639']
Jesus Died on Friday - Day 1.
Saturday - Day 2.
Sunday - Day 3.
Jesus Rises on Day 3.

QED. What am I missing? Other than the extreme literal 72 hour thing Arch Cat brought up, is that your argument? That it wasn't literally 72 hours? Honeslty thats just not convincing.

Now, I understand there isn't 3 nights, but I don't off the top of my head that Jesus said he would die and on the third day and night he would rise again.
[/quote]
I believe the three days & three nights is a reference to Matthew 12:40, when Jesus says that, just as Jonah was in the fish for 3 days & nights, so will He be in the grave for that long. Even with this, though, there is no reason to think that Jonah was necessarily in the fish for 72 exact hours.

October 9, 2009

So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.

October 9, 2009

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1255103881' post='1981669']
So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.
[/quote]

Staring at the trees? I think you mean staring at the branches.

Edited October 9, 2009 by rkwright

October 9, 2009

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1255103881' post='1981669']
So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.
[/quote]

Christianity has failed because they are not in spirit and in truth. The true worshippers of God are in spirit and in truth. Those of the truth hear God's voice.

1 John 5:6[ [i]The Certainty of God's Witness[/i] ] This is He who came by water and bloodJesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the [b]Spirit[/b] who bears witness, because the [b]Spirit[/b] is [b]truth[/b].

1 John 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the [b]spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b] and the [b]spirit[/b] of error.

1 John 3:24[ [i]The [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]Truth[/b] and the [b]Spirit[/b] of Error[/i] ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the [b]Spirit[/b] whom He has given us.

1 Peter 1:22</H3>[ [i]The Enduring Word[/i] ] Since you have purified your souls in obeying the [b]truth[/b] through the [b]Spirit[/b] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

Ephesians 5:9 for the fruit of the [b]Spirit[/b] is in all goodness, righteousness, and [b]truth[/b]),

John 16:13 However, when He, the [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b], has come, He will guide you into all [b]truth[/b]; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

John 15:26"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b] who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

It does not say a book will testify of God. Nor does it say a tradition will testify of God. It does not say that truth is equal to speculation. These are recordings of men who had the sprit of truth within when the words were spoke, since they were born again. The writings of men have been corrupted. This is why Christ warns of you about the doctrines of men. Seek truth from the spirit of truth and you will be a part of the Church Christ started.

This starts by keeping the Laws of god (repentance). It's the beginning of true wisdom. Who among you have spoken truth after all the posts presented in this thread?

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='09 October 2009 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1255100649' post='1981643']
I believe the three days & three nights is a reference to Matthew 12:40, when Jesus says that, just as Jonah was in the fish for 3 days & nights, so will He be in the grave for that long. Even with this, though, there is no reason to think that Jonah was necessarily in the fish for 72 exact hours.
[/quote]

It's also in reference to why there is false testimony in your bible.

[b]Two bible verses for the same Prophecy differ regarding true time. One is true scripture (prophecy) and one is false. They cannot both be true since they give [/b][b]two very different perceptions of time when compared to the sign of Jonah prophecy. We know Satan attempted to change God's times as recorded in Daniel [/b][b]7:25. Man and Satan cannot alter true time, but Satan can change our perception of it thought doubt or the manipulation of mans testimony as we saw in the [/b][b]case of the Matthew quote by the third century Christian (bishop) regarding when the ladies went to the tomb. [/b]

Matthew 16:21 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and be raised the third day.[/u][/b] [b]

*This verse supports the concept of the Friday death and first day of week resurrection, which in turn causes men to ignore the sign of Jonah prophecy saying [/b][b]God was allowed to be figurative and not have to be in the tomb for 3 full days and 3 full nights. One undeniable fact consistent with reality is that you do not get [/b][b]3 full days and 3 full nights from a Friday death and first day of the week resurrection. [/b][b]The Friday death scenario causes reason for disbelief in Christ to the unbelieving world and [/b][b]causes conflicting testimonies among the Christian believers. [/b][b]These two differing prophecies within the bible are evidence that Satan tried to change [/b][b]God's time that would bare witness to him! [/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=8&verse=31&version=50&context=verse"][/url][/b]

Mark 8:31 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and after three days rise again.[/u][/b] [b]

*This verse supports 3 full days and 3 full nights as was the sign of Jonah. This supports all the prophecies which align on one single day and one single year in [/b][b]accordance with the laws and testimony of Jesus, restoring credibility that Christ was the son of a perfect God. A Wednesday death fulfills all in the law and [/b][b]prophets restoring Christ credibility to a non believing world.[/b][b] [/b]

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 10:48 AM' timestamp='1255099701' post='1981639']
Jesus Died on Friday - Day 1.
Saturday - Day 2.
Sunday - Day 3.
Jesus Rises on Day 3.
[/quote]

Exactly, He rose "on the third day" not "after the third day."

October 9, 2009

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1255111229' post='1981783']
It's also in reference to why there is false testimony in your bible.
[/quote]

Your Bible came after our Bible, friend. And yours is also incomplete, with poor translations.

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1255111484' post='1981786']
Exactly, He rose "on the third day" not "after the third day."
[/quote]

The monestary gospel that is proven to predate the 4 roman bible NT gospels in use today says you just told a lie. There is a difference in opinion regarding Catholic written Doctrine. It's one thing to make the statement you made and offer no evidence.. It's another to call it truth if God did not give it to you to speak.

Luke 24:6-8 KJV
Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified[b], [/b][b][u]and the third day [/u][/b][b][u]rise again[/u][/b][b].'" [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse supports that Christ fell short of his prophecy causing him to lose credibility [/b]

G-12 Equivalent verse:
Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would[b] [/b][b][u]rise again after the third day[/u][/b][b]? [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse show's Christ fulfilled 3 full days and 3 full nights restoring Christ's credibility as the son of God in the mind of the disbeliever.[/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=21&version=50&context=verse"] [/url][/b]

Luke 34:21 KJV Road to Emmaus Verse
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this,[b] [/b][b][u]today is the third day since these things happened[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

G-12 Text Road to Emmaus verse equivalent: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel;[b] [/b][b][u]and beside all this three days have passed since these things were done[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

Luke 24:45-47 KJV
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead the third day[/u][/b][u]: [/u]47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 equivalent verse
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead after the third day[/u][/b][u]. [/u]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 references are taken word for word from the following link [url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

I tend to not take the King James too seriously.

So I think you are the only Christian I know who disagrees with Christ's Resurrection occurring on that Sunday.

October 9, 2009

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1255111871' post='1981796']
The monestary gospel that is proven to predate the 4 roman bible NT gospels in use today says you just told a lie. There is a difference in opinion regarding Catholic written Doctrine. It's one thing to make the statement you made and offer no evidence.. It's another to call it truth if God did not give it to you to speak.

Luke 24:6-8 KJV
Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified[b], [/b][b][u]and the third day [/u][/b][b][u]rise again[/u][/b][b].'" [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse supports that Christ fell short of his prophecy causing him to lose credibility [/b]

G-12 Equivalent verse:
Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would[b] [/b][b][u]rise again after the third day[/u][/b][b]? [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse show's Christ fulfilled 3 full days and 3 full nights restoring Christ's credibility as the son of God in the mind of the disbeliever.[/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=21&version=50&context=verse"] [/url][/b]

Luke 34:21 KJV Road to Emmaus Verse
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this,[b] [/b][b][u]today is the third day since these things happened[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

G-12 Text Road to Emmaus verse equivalent: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel;[b] [/b][b][u]and beside all this three days have passed since these things were done[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

Luke 24:45-47 KJV
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead the third day[/u][/b][u]: [/u]47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 equivalent verse
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead after the third day[/u][/b][u]. [/u]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 references are taken word for word from the following link [url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]
[/quote]
So are you a modern Essene?

October 9, 2009

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='09 October 2009 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1255112546' post='1981806']
So are you a modern Essene?
[/quote]

Essene were no different than Christians.. they collected written recordings of testimony spoken by living men. Scripture is what proceeds from the mouth of living Men. Though the link that presents the g-12 text claims it to be essene and a perfect gospel doctrine, The study shared with you illustrates that it too is not perfect just as the 4 bible NT gospels are not perfect because they came from the G-12 text. The evidence with in the G-12 text illustrates that it is Catholic doctrine predating the councils that broke the gospel up into 4 divided half truths from the original written G-12 text.

I don't make these claims with out providing you the evidence to see if my words are true... You just have to take the time to review the link and test everything shared with you.

Before Darkness took over by the Christian world.. the 144000 Jewish decendants who received the baptism of water and spirit made an impression on the gentiles before being turned on, branded as Heretics, and murdered. The world has been in spiritual fasting and famine ever since, so that prophecy regarding the gentiles and the beast powers mentioned of in Daniel can be fulfilled.

God is calling people out of Babylon.. The spiritual confusion by the mixing of words.

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1255112043' post='1981799']
I tend to not take the King James too seriously.

So I think you are the only Christian I know who disagrees with Christ's Resurrection occurring on that Sunday.
[/quote]

Christ's spiritual resurrection occured at Baptism of water and spirit. This was the resurrection of the son of man. I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic church. This did me no good. I was baptized again as a prodastant and this too did me no good until i learned about repentance.. it was then that i was baptized with water as i experienced the remission of sin by repentance. once pure Christ can give the spirit of truth to dwell in the temple not made with mans hands (YOU).

Regarding Christs crucifixion. I agree that Christ Rose on the first day of the week. In the midnight hours as I objectivly presented in the study at the link and backed with Historical Christian testimony so that it's not a speculation.

God Bless

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1255112043' post='1981799']
I tend to not take the King James too seriously.

So I think you are the only Christian I know who disagrees with Christ's Resurrection occurring on that Sunday.
[/quote]

Regarding which bible to take seriously.. they all have good seed (words sown by Christ) and Bad seed (words sown by Satan) in the same field. I think you will appreciate this example since I save the Catholic example for last and the typo's you will find are as they were printed in that Catholic version.

[b][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][left]In the 6 bible verses which follow we see the symbolism preservation in Old Testament scripture for the High day only mentioned one time in bible New Testament verses in the book of John 19:31[/left]
[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (King James Version) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with an high hand [/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the sight of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[left]Numbers 33:3 (Amplified Bible) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the Israelites went out [of Egypt] [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with a high hand [/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]and triumphantly in the sight of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[left]Numbers 33:3 (21st Century King James Version) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with a high hand [/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the sight of all the Egyptians, [/left]
[left]Numbers 33:3 (American Standard Version) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3 [/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]And they journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with a high hand [/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the sight of all the Egyptians, [/left]
[left]Numbers 33:3 (Young's Literal Translation) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]And they journey from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow of the Passover have the sons of Israel gone out [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with a high hand[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"], before the eyes of all the Egyptians --[/left]
[left]Numbers 33:3 (Darby Translation) [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the morrow after the Passover the children of Israel went out [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]with a high hand [/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the sight of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][left]The verses which follow are the same verse but the words are changed to cause men to lose or hide the true understanding of the High day. Tradition of belief currently states the high day is a ceremonial Passover Sabbath falling in conjunction with a seventh day Sabbath.[/left]
[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New International Version) 3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New American Standard Bible) 3[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]A[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"])[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They journeyed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the next day after the Passover the sons of Israel [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]B[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"])[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]started out boldly in the sight of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (The Message) 3-4 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They marched out of Rameses the day after the Passover. It was the fifteenth day of the first month. They marched out heads high and confident. The Egyptians, busy burying their firstborn, whom G[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]OD [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]had killed, watched them go. G[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]OD [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]had exposed the nonsense of their gods.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New Living Translation) 3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They set out from the city of Rameses in early spring—on the fifteenth day of the first month[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]a[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]—on the morning after the first Passover celebration. The people of Israel left defiantly, in full view of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (English Standard Version) 3[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]A[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]set out from Rameses in[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]B[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. On the day after the Passover, the people of Israel went out[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]C[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]triumphantly in the sight of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (Contemporary English Version) 3-4[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]Israel left the Egyptian city of Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month. [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]This was the day after the LORD had punished Egypt's gods by killing the first-born sons in every Egyptian family. So while the Egyptians were burying the bodies, they watched the Israelites proudly [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]b[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]] [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]leave their country.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New King James Version[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the children of Israel went out with boldness in the sight of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New Century Version) 3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]On the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover, the Israelites left Rameses and marched out boldly in front of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (Holman Christian Standard Bible[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]They departed from Rameses [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]A[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the month. On the day after the Passover [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]B[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]the Israelites went out triumphantly [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]([/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]C[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]) [[/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"]a[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]] [/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]in the sight of all the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New International Reader's Version) 3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]The people of Israel started out from Rameses. It was the 15th day of the first month. It was the day after the Passover Feast. They marched out boldly in plain sight of all of the Egyptians.[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (New International Version - UK) 3[/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"][left]Numbers 33:3 (Today's New International Version) 3 [/b][/size][/font][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Arial"][size="1"]The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out defiantly in full view of all the Egyptians,[/left]
[/size][/font][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#0000ff"][left]The verse below is from a Catholic translation which completely hides that this verse is in regards to the Passover and loses the symbolism of the High day. This verse tells us about early Christian history and that things were lose due to poor translation and lack of understanding of the Ceremonial laws which God fulfilled.[/left]
[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][left]Numbers 33:3 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.) [/b][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"]3[/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][b][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][size="1"][color="#ff0000"]Now the children of Israel departed from Ramesses the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the phase, with a mighty hand, in the eight of all the Egyptians,[/left]
Because the bible is ever changing.. it cannot be God's word. God's word is truth and it is solid![/b][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font]

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1255111580' post='1981789']
Your Bible came after our Bible, friend. And yours is also incomplete, with poor translations.
[/quote]

Finally truth has slipped from your lips. This is what I have been trying to tell you. The word of God is truth from Heaven that is supposed to be inside you. if it is not.. you are not born again and you are not in a state of Salvation. If you only read about living men from the 4 half truth Written gospels contained in any version of the Christian bible and belive yourself to be saved.. then you are deceived to believe in God.

According to Galations 1:5-7 there was only one gospel. Why then does the Catholic NT bibles of today contain 4?

[b]Galatians 1:5-7

Only One Gospel[/b]
[sup][b][size="2"]6[/size][/b][/sup] I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [sup][b][size="2"]7[/size][/b][/sup] which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

thanks for an amazing example!

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1255117708' post='1981862']
Finally truth has slipped from your lips. This is what I have been trying to tell you. The word of God is truth from Heaven that is supposed to be inside you. if it is not.. you are not born again and you are not in a state of Salvation. If you only read about living men and belive yourself to be saved.. then you are deceived to believe in God.

thanks for an amazing example!

God Bless
[/quote]

Um...no. You said that my Bible is "false testimony" and I simply reminded you that my Bible came before yours. So if my Bible is "false testimony" then how much worse is the one YOU are using to back up your arguments?

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1255117883' post='1981863']
Um...no. You said that my Bible is "false testimony" and I simply reminded you that my Bible came before yours. So if my Bible is "false testimony" then how much worse is the one YOU are using to back up your arguments?
[/quote]

By using mulitple prophetic witnesses for truth (God's witness of his son) i'm illustrating for you how you are to know the Good from the bad. But then again you still have yet to view the study.. so our conversation is going to remain fruitless. The written testimonies are half truth which cannot give you the spirit of God.

keep the commandments for this is mans All.. Everything else is supposed to be recorded history in order to illustrate for you the importance of keeping the Law. christ is the lawgiver and the prophecies are to bare witness of this. If they are miss represented.. how can Christ prove with a solid testimony that he is who he claims to be. How can the Catholic Church convince the entire world of this if they are not in spirit and in truth?

If everything else is written in Error and does not record history correctly.. for what reason Should you or anyone then take the advice to keep the Law which most Christians claim Christ did away with?

regarding the corruption of the G-12 text in comparison to the 4 half truth gospels, This is the question you will need to answer for yourself.... the study shared at the link provides a great deal of Objective truth that will help you with this answer.

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

How have you come to these conclusions?

October 9, 2009

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1255119139' post='1981870']
How have you come to these conclusions?
[/quote]

This dumbfounded question is the very reason I asked for people to review carefully all the objective truths listed at the link in the original post before giving opinions. If you are not familiar with the topic at hand.. how can you give objective inputs into the topic? Here it is one more time so that you can have a Do over.

With much of the Christian world all making good cases for a Friday crucifixion, Thursday crucifixion, and even a Wednesday crucifixion; all built on the bible with the verses they choose as truth to define their perceptions while ignoring other portions of bible verses and historical testimony, I decided to take it upon myself to test all that I could find on this topic and put it all to the test using the Prophecies and time as God defined it as a baseline for truth. It is said that scripture is of no personal interpretation (speculation). What I have found is pretty solid and amazing yet it poses new questions that have been answered by much of my findings. I am however curious what your answers will be to my questions, but first I would like you to review the answers I objectively present in the link referenced study so that you will be able to present why your understanding are more or less correct than what I have discovered and objectively displayed.

Knowing that Christ stated that he fulfilled all things written into the laws of Moses I looked for and found a 4 day timed specific prophecy in exodus 12 regarding the Lamb which Christianity claims Christ to be per the testimony of John the Baptist.

Why does the bible in it's current state of Preservation not illustrate the fulfillment of the 4 day prophecy in Exodus 12. In exodus 12 the Lamb (Christ) was to be chosen by the people on the tenth day of the first month. On the 14th day Christ (the Lamb) was to be killed. The only event that fits this symbolism of the Lamb being chosen by the people is the triumphal entry, yet the bible does not illustrate this being fulfilled since the anointing At Bethany according to John places the triumphal entry on the 9th Day of the first month. Both Matt and Mark place the anointing Event 2 days before Passover (12 Nissan) and if the triumphal entry happened the next day (13 Nissan), you still do not have the Lamb being chosen by the people on the 10th day per the Law of Moses which Christ claimed to have fulfilled.

There is a non canonized Gospel that was found in 1877 in a monastery in Tibet which illustrates exodus 12 in fulfillment. It also illustrates many other amazing testimonies. If there is a Gospel that is more complete (96 continuous Chapters) and illustrates prophecy fulfillment where the bible does not. This exposes Error in the bible gospels. Why does the bible have Errors when people today claim it is infallible? By making false statements are they in Spirit and in Truth? Can they not hear God's voice which does tell the full truth?

If the official story regarding the history of the 4 gospels was truth, why is this study able to give solid credible evidence that the 4 bible gospels came from a single written gospel source? Page 31

The study gives a great deal of Credibility to the concept of God's word being perfect and that Christ was God's Son. Problem presented is that Christianity's definition of God's word is incorrect and they Make God look like a Liar by misrepresenting God's word..

Here is a link that I have built which causes me to ask questions and provide the information which provokes the questions. Can you find any page of testimony presented that is not telling the truth based on what is presented?

By page 37, do you believe the information presented illustrates accurately enough why the Christian world is divided and in a state of denominational confusion?

Can you answer any of these questions with certain truth after reviewing the information which provokes the questions?

Are your answers speculation based on traditions and human imagination or as God's child did he speak the truth in your ear to answer these question since God's children hear God's voice?

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

God bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

October 9, 2009

Where is there an online copy of this so-called gospel?

October 9, 2009

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1255119852' post='1981877']
Where is there an online copy of this so-called gospel?
[/quote]

You can find it here.

[url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]

It can be found here

[url="http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_table_of_contents.htm"]http://www.thenazare...of_contents.htm[/url]

It can also be found here.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/gospel%20of%20holy%2012.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...20holy%2012.pdf[/url]

And if you read the information in the link study you would have found several of these links posted through out the study.

The purpose of the study I share is to illustrate objectivly what this gospel means to the Christian world. those who know of this gospel claim it to be perfect or claim it to be an 19th century forgery. Both are incorrect in their human assupmtions. It does however fill in many blanks and eliminates many Christian speculations regarding the 4 Roman gospels we have today.

Basically your looking at a unique opportunity to see if your Christian forefathers did a good job when they sat down at the chopping block during the councils to define orthodoxy.

Hope you enjoy the links.

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

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