Is It Overall In A Nation's Interest To Recognize Gay Marriage?

[eagle_eye222001]

Is it overall in a nation's interest to recognize gay marriage? Or polygamy for that matter? Why?

Couple ground rules. [size="6"][b]No religious arguments.[/b][/size]

Basically does a nation in self interest, do more good in recognizing gay marriage or polygamy, or do they do themselves more harm?

How does gay marriage or polygamy benefit a nation? How do they detract?

[JimR-OCDS]

Being children are best served by having one mother and one father, a society is better served where children are
raised in that better environment.


Society benefits proportionately, to how well children are raised.

Jim

[Nihil Obstat]

Does anyone know a good place to look for statistics regarding rates of HIV/AIDS infection before and after legalization of homosexual unions in countries that have done so? That would be an interesting graph to look at.

[Varg]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='08 October 2009 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1255033181' post='1981118']
Being children are best served by having one mother and one father, a society is better served where children are
raised in that better environment.


Society benefits proportionately, to how well children are raised.

Jim
[/quote]Yes, but very few gay couples choose to adopt.

On the other hand, I think polygamy shouldn't be allowed.

[Varg]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 October 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1255033512' post='1981127']
Does anyone know a good place to look for statistics regarding rates of HIV/AIDS infection before and after legalization of homosexual unions in countries that have done so? That would be an interesting graph to look at.
[/quote]I doubt there'd be any difference, if anything the HIV/AIDS numbers would go down.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Varg' date='08 October 2009 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1255033635' post='1981132']
I doubt there'd be any difference, if anything the HIV/AIDS numbers would go down.
[/quote]
Well we can't know that until we see some charts.
We'd need data for countries at all levels of development too, to get an accurate picture.

[Varg]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 October 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1255033676' post='1981134']
Well we can't know that until we see some charts.
We'd need data for countries at all levels of development too, to get an accurate picture.
[/quote]I'm just saying, if gay marriage was allowed then the couples would stick with each other for longer, reducing the amount of partners they have and hence reducing the spread of AIDS. Makes sense, kyllä?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Varg' date='08 October 2009 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1255033873' post='1981140']
I'm just saying, if gay marriage was allowed then the couples would stick with each other for longer, reducing the amount of partners they have and hence reducing the spread of AIDS. Makes sense, kyllä?
[/quote]
Maybe, maybe not. Like I said, I'd need to see the statistics for a variety of different countries before I'd feel informed enough even to speculate.

[CatherineM]

I know that in Alberta most new cases of HIV (70-80%) are IV drug users not homosexuals. Gay marriage is legal here, if you can find someone to do the service.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' date='08 October 2009 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1255033531' post='1981129']
Yes, but very few gay couples choose to adopt.

On the other hand, I think polygamy shouldn't be allowed.
[/quote]
Do you have stats on gay adoption?

[StColette]

[quote name='Varg' date='08 October 2009 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1255033873' post='1981140']
I'm just saying, if gay marriage was allowed then the couples would stick with each other for longer
[/quote]

Do we know this for sure? Do we have statistics from countries that allow gay marriage and show what the divorce rate is among them? I'm willing to bet it's similar to the divorce rate of heterosexual couples.


[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='08 October 2009 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1255037952' post='1981209']
Do you have stats on gay adoption?
[/quote]

I'd be interested to see those stats as well.

[Slappo]

From an economic standpoint, polygamy would prove beneficial to the country and homosexual marriage disadvantageous. The more population growth, the higher the economy.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Varg' date='08 October 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1255033635' post='1981132']
I doubt there'd be any difference, if anything the HIV/AIDS numbers would go down.
[/quote]
I bet you think that condoms prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa too

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='08 October 2009 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1255043832' post='1981281']
I bet you think that condoms prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa too
[/quote]
And I bet you think only gay people get AIDS.

[Socrates]

[quote name='StColette' date='08 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1255038325' post='1981212']
Do we know this for sure? Do we have statistics from countries that allow gay marriage and show what the divorce rate is among them? I'm willing to bet it's similar to the divorce rate of heterosexual couples.
[/quote]
Ok, I'm too lazy and time-strapped to look up the stats right now (though others are welcome to take up the challenge), though I recall reading repeatedly that "gay marriages" in the U.S. have a divorce rate much [i]higher[/i] than among the "heterosexual" married population.

"Gay marriage" is a politically-motivated farce which benefits only the divorce lawyers.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Socrates

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Socrates' date='08 October 2009 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1255046791' post='1981308']
"Gay marriage" is a politically-motivated farce which benefits only the divorce lawyers.
[/quote]
I am in favor of anything benefiting lawyers.

[Sternhauser]

The State has no place in telling adults what civil contracts they may or may not enter into. Nor does it have any place in giving them special favors for making any civil contract.

~Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Slappo' date='08 October 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1255043433' post='1981276']
From an economic standpoint, polygamy would prove beneficial to the country and homosexual marriage disadvantageous. The more population growth, the higher the economy.
[/quote]

India and China are here to tell you that only in a free economy is your second statement true.

~Sternhauser

[Jesus_lol]

i think this is a great thread idea.
aside from religious arguments, i see no reason why it wouldnt be allowed or any reason that it would hurt the state. its not like it would reduce the amount of heterosexual baby producing marriages

in terms of social status, as more powerful nations accept gay marriage, it might make the state look good to follow suit.
in terms of people directly affected by it, letting gay people marry would make a lot of people happy. on the otherhand lots of people who really arent affected at all in any way could get furious.

polygamy on the other hand, not a good thing from any perspective. it fosters disrespect for women, is entirely based on greed and does a disservice to any children from such unions. like all the young men who get exiled so there are more women for the older men.

the only reason i could see for polygamy would be as a brief stopgap after an event like a world war where there is all of a sudden a huge disparity between the surviving men and women. even then, as baby boomers are evidence of, the old fashioned way still works in that situation

Edited October 9, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[StColette]

Found one study in Sweden about the divorce rate among gay couples

----

Divorce Rate in Same-Sex
Partnerships In Sweden
A new study published by the Institute For Marriage And Public Policy (IMAPP) in May, 2004, sheds light on the high incidence of legal "divorce" among gays who entered into a registered same-sex partnership in Sweden.

The IMAPP report surveys the results of a study published by Gunnar Andersson, earlier this year entitled "Divorce-Risk Patterns In Same-Sex 'Marriages' In Norway And Sweden."

The IMAPP report notes that in Sweden, between 1995 and 2002, there were 1,526 gay partnerships contracted, compared to 280,000 for heterosexual couples. Five out of 1,000 new couples in Sweden are same-sex. Sixty-two percent of those are male same-sex unions.

The survey revealed a high rate of legal divorce among homosexual couples in Sweden. Gay male couples were 50% more likely to divorce within an eight-year period than were heterosexuals; and lesbian couples were 167% more likely to divorce than heterosexual couples.

According to IMAPP: "Even among childless households, same-sex male partnerships experienced almost a 50% higher likelihood (1.49 times as likely) of divorce during the study period, while childless lesbian couples were three times as likely (200% higher likelihood) to break up as a married couple without children."

http://www.narth.com/docs/sweden.html