Hananiah Posted April 9, 2004 Posted April 9, 2004 [quote]if its a physical work that saves you, and thereby justifies you, and in doing so, also sanctifies you... then why did Christ come to fulfill the law so we would not be bound by its rituals, traditions, and scrutiny?[/quote] You're pitting your own fallible, human logic against God-breathed Scripture. You may see a contradiction between baptismal regeneration and justification by faith, but if Scripture does not (1 Peter 3:21) obviously no contradiction exists. [quote]and didn't Paul rebuke PETER, THE ROCK (yes, emphasis added), James and John about telling new converts that they shouldn't be circumcised? that only faith could save them?[/quote] Yes, St. Paul did rebuke St. Peter, and did say that works of the law could not save them, but he never said that only faith could save them. Rather, St. Paul taught that one was saved by faith working through love.
Justified Saint Posted April 10, 2004 Author Posted April 10, 2004 mulls, I am contesting the belief held by some Protestants that baptism is a public showing of one's faith infront of their church. I don't know what your beliefs of baptism are but they sound similar. I think your interpretation assumes too much and it seems to kind of beg the question alsmost since Phillip was, as far as we can tell, the only one there and he has to do the baptizing. The eunuch can't baptize himself.
mulls Posted April 10, 2004 Posted April 10, 2004 [quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 10 2004, 11:57 AM'] mulls, I am contesting the belief held by some Protestants that baptism is a public showing of one's faith infront of their church. I don't know what your beliefs of baptism are but they sound similar. I think your interpretation assumes too much and it seems to kind of beg the question alsmost since Phillip was, as far as we can tell, the only one there and he has to do the baptizing. The eunuch can't baptize himself. [/quote] what church did the eunuch belong to that he could publicly show his faith in front of?
Justified Saint Posted April 11, 2004 Author Posted April 11, 2004 Exactly, which is why Protestant baptism has evolved to something unbiblical.
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Apr 9 2004, 07:17 AM'] LJ, Why do you think Jesus said in Jn 14:15 "if you love me, keep my commandments" Mt 19:16-17 "if wish to enter into life, keep commandments" Jam 2:24 "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" It's not a free ticket. Thats what we need the Holy Eucharist for, because that is were God and man unite and He gives us the strenght to carry out our daily duties and virtues. "It is no longer I that lives, but Christ who lives within me." St Paul wrote. God is working through us. All in all it is God's Divine Mercy that we will be at the beatific vision. But He also gave us a responsiblity to follow His commandments. Rom 2:5-8 "God will repay each man according to his works" Col 3:24-25 "knowing that you will receive from the Lord the due payment of the inheritance; be slaves of the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will receive recompense for the wrong he committed, and there is no partiality." Dave is correct in his statement that Baptism replaces circumcision. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. Many books but One Book. Many authors but One Divine Author the Holy Spirit. Scripture does not argue with Scripture? God Bless Jason [/quote] oh my... snippets here, selective verses there... most of it...out of context. [quote]Thats what we need the Holy Eucharist for, because that is were God and man unite and He gives us the strenght to carry out our daily duties and virtues.[/quote] and that ^ ??? wow...I'm sorry...I'm indwelt by God's HOLY SPIRIT...and don't need your wafer to get on with my daily duties and virtues. God's Spirit guides me to whatever I need. Repentance, Faith, Action(be doers of the word, not just hearers, deceiving yourselves), Reading the Bible. Protestants use tradition based on and tested against the Bible. Catholics use the Bible based on tradition and tested by....well not the individual, thats for sure. oh. my.
Archangel Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 11 2004, 12:19 AM']Protestants use tradition based on and tested against the Bible.[/quote] What is/are the tradition(s) of Protestants?
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 read your Bible and find out. notice how I only listed the Bible.
Archangel Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 Since you didn't provide an example, let me ask you: Do Protestants celebrate [b]Easter[/b]? What traditions do they follow regarding [b]Easter[/b]?
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 we celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Saviour, yes. but we don't just do it one day a year...as MANY C.O.E* catholics do. and yes, we also do the sunrise service and remember and read what happened... but we do these things year round also. *[b]C[/b]hristmas [b]O[/b]r [b]E[/b]aster
Justified Saint Posted April 11, 2004 Author Posted April 11, 2004 How about you engage in the context then lumberjack instead of just complaining about it and then avoiding it? Maybe you need Bruce to help you.
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 if comings is goings and goings is comings, from whence did you come?
Justified Saint Posted April 11, 2004 Author Posted April 11, 2004 That must be the signal for Bruce.
Hananiah Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 11 2004, 04:19 AM'] oh my... snippets here, selective verses there... most of it...out of context. [/quote] I have seen you prooftext on this board as well. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 Ya, the whole wooden beam in the eye thing, trying to find our splinters!
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='Hananiah' date='Apr 11 2004, 01:17 PM'] I have seen you prooftext on this board as well. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses. [/quote] yeah, they shouldn't walk aroudn naked. and I do prooftext, but I remember who wrote it, to who they wrote it, and under the circumstances they wrote it....and apply it to the situation as it should be. I don't do like faith and prosperity ministers do and go around swindling money from people, proclaiming, "by His stripes we are healed!" context...if you don't use it...don't bother.
Hananiah Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 11 2004, 02:15 PM'] and I do prooftext, but I remember who wrote it, to who they wrote it, and under the circumstances they wrote it....and apply it to the situation as it should be. [/quote] Perhaps this is the case, but it doesn't show up on the surface. Your posts look to me just like Jason's; many verses from many different contexts strung together to try to prove a point. If in fact you are doing a deeper exegesis of Scripture, you should display it on the board.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='Hananiah' date='Apr 11 2004, 03:27 PM'] Perhaps this is the case, but it doesn't show up on the surface. Your posts look to me just like Jason's; many verses from many different contexts strung together to try to prove a point. If in fact you are doing a deeper exegesis of Scripture, you should display it on the board. [/quote] Hananiah, you don't like me?
the lumberjack Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 more than anything else, the Bible speaks for itself, in that when the apostles wrote them, the churches and peoples they were writing to were having the same problems with doctrine. so the fact they were writing them on the same issues makes it very valid.
Hananiah Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Apr 11 2004, 02:30 PM'] Hananiah, you don't like me? [/quote] It's not that I don't like you. It's just that you and lumberjack are both doing apologetics at a very basic level. Nothing against you personally.
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 12, 2004 Posted April 12, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Hananiah' date='Apr 11 2004, 05:46 PM'] It's not that I don't like you. It's just that you and lumberjack are both doing apologetics at a very basic level. Nothing against you personally. [/quote] They say they want things out of the Bible so that's the source I try to use to break the ice. Theology won't get you to Heaven, childlike trust is the key. Someone will catch on alot quicker with basic Theology than complex big words that bring you out in left field. Remember Jesus praised the Father from hiding these things from the learned and the wise and revealing them to the childlike. Jesus was the best Theology Teacher ever, listen to His words. God Bless Jason Edited April 12, 2004 by Jason
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