Charleston Shooting Suspect (Derailed: Confederate Flag Debate)

[Maggyie]

​In Europe (at least France and Germany), Nazis flags are forbidden. instead, facist & neonazis uses confederate flag.

That's my point, you can ban symbols all day long and that doesn't do anything to solve the real problem. 

[Guest]

It's a start though. By flying them high it's just a taunt at this point. Most people won't agree with that on Phatmass. I get that. Trust me I do.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Guest

[Seven77]

Thanks for posting the video. Very powerful example of forgiveness.

[Guest]

 

Edited June 20, 2015 by Guest

[Socrates]

That little piece of excrement is the reason the electric chair was invented, and I hope they put him in a cell with a big black man, as he awaits his fate.  May God have mercy on his soul.

It's a shame, though, that people, including our Dear Leader, immediately started politicizing this horrible act and tragedy.

Unlike the pc phatmass, crowd, I have no problem with the Confederate flag, and own several.  The War between the States was much more complex than the pc parrots make it to be, and the Confederacy was about more than slavery - many switched to the Southern side because of what they saw as tyrannical oppression by the Federal government against the right of states to secede.

Neither banning flags and other forms of legitimate free speech/expression, nor banning firearms, is the solution.  The conversion of hearts and minds is.

[NadaTeTurbe]

That's my point, you can ban symbols all day long and that doesn't do anything to solve the real problem. 

​Banning abortion can increase the number of abortion. So, banning abortion doesn't do anything to solve the real problem. And, still, the only moral things to do is banning abortion. 
 

Also, I am against complete free speech. There's things you have not the right to say. Period. 

[Guest]

It's Hate

[Maggyie]

​Banning abortion can increase the number of abortion. So, banning abortion doesn't do anything to solve the real problem. And, still, the only moral things to do is banning abortion.  

Also, I am against complete free speech. There's things you have not the right to say. Period. 

Perhaps this is where I differ, while I recognize to have a just society, abortion should be illegal, if making it totally illegal would DEFINITELY result in an increase in abortion I don't think any true pro lifer would be in favor of such a law. Our goal is to save babies and anything that causes more to die is not a true win.

however your theory is not definite, evidence shows legal restrictions drop the abortion rate...

a better comparison is drugs. In the US we ban drugs the way Europe bans fascist symbols. However in the US we have a massive crippling drug problem and Europe is suffering from a huge increase in right wing nationalist activity including extremist parties winning legislative seats. So clearly banning things makes people feel good that they are "doing something" but fails to actually solve the problem. 

[NadaTeTurbe]

We will have to disagree  But I would say, I think nazi flag are not free speech : they are a menace against jewish people. They are inciting to hate. They are telling people "I hate you, I want to kill you". They are against the peace and harmony of society 

 

(and btw it should be the same with ISIS flag. One of our neighbours have one at his windows... You just don't feel safe)

[Seven77]

That little piece of excrement is the reason the electric chair was invented, and I hope they put him in a cell with a big black man, as he awaits his fate.  May God have mercy on his soul.

It's a shame, though, that people, including our Dear Leader, immediately started politicizing this horrible act and tragedy.

Unlike the pc phatmass, crowd, I have no problem with the Confederate flag, and own several.  The War between the States was much more complex than the pc parrots make it to be, and the Confederacy was about more than slavery - many switched to the Southern side because of what they saw as tyrannical oppression by the Federal government against the right of states to secede.

Neither banning flags and other forms of legitimate free speech/expression, nor banning firearms, is the solution.  The conversion of hearts and minds is.

Whatever the case may be, the confederate flag has come to be inextricably associated with racism, and for that reason  it is not appropriate for it to be displayed publicly. It's almost  the same in effect as displaying a rainbow flag to display God's covenant with Noah.

 Maybe it shouldn't be banned outrightly, but people should exercise more understanding, common sense, and good taste when putting stuff up.

 

[Socrates]

​Banning abortion can increase the number of abortion. 

​Oh, really?  How so?

 

So, banning abortion doesn't do anything to solve the real problem. And, still, the only moral things to do is banning abortion.  

Also, I am against complete free speech. There's things you have not the right to say. Period. 

Comparing abortion (the deliberate killing of an unborn human person) to flying a flag which can be a legitimate symbol of Southern heritage and pride (however you might personally disagree) is beyond absurd.  Last I checked, no one was killed by a Confederate flag.

Gen. Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson (and the millions who fought and died under that flag in defense of their homeland) would both be utterly appalled and disgusted by that vile little puke's abuse of the flag.

If we ban whatever some people find offensive, we're on a slippery slope against freedom.

[Seven77]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/shooting-dylann-roof-facebook_n_7614398.html?cps=gravity_2677_3195169518247752168

[Lilllabettt]

 

​Oh, really?  How so?

 

Comparing abortion (the deliberate killing of an unborn human person) to flying a flag which can be a legitimate symbol of Southern heritage and pride (however you might personally disagree) is beyond absurd.  Last I checked, no one was killed by a Confederate flag.

Gen. Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson (and the millions who fought and died under that flag in defense of their homeland) would both be utterly appalled and disgusted by that vile little puke's abuse of the flag.

If we ban whatever some people find offensive, we're on a slippery slope against freedom.

 

​

Gen. Robert E. Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson, and the millions who fought and died under that flag were traitors to the United States. Their attempt to violently overthrow the government - an effort which was utterly hopeless from the start -  led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of loyal American citizens and the murder of our president.

If somewhere in my family tree I had a great great grand-daddy who betrayed America in the Civil War, I would hide the photos and pretend it never happened. If pressed I would explain how "everybody" in the South had to fight in the Confederate army, the same way "all" German kids had to join Hitler Youth. I would not be like, proud of it, and waving my great great grand-daddy's traitor flag in anybody's face.  This is real. My grandpa was a soldier for the Axis powers during WWII. We are not proud of that "heritage." We hide the photos and pretend it never happened. He fought in the American army in Korea, and we put those pictures up. The fact that he was EVER involved in killing loyal Americans is something shameful for him and us.

 

 

 

[KnightofChrist]

The American flag and the Confederate flag virtually have the same history of evil acts that happen under those banner. If one is a symbol of slavery so iis the other. Far more evil and wicked acts have happened under the American flag, the Confederates for example very legalized the butchering of unborn children that targets mostly black neighborhoods. And both the American and Confederate flags are symbols of rebellion and casting off another government. So any way if Confederate flag equals hate so does the American flag.

[Socrates]

​

Gen. Robert E. Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson, and the millions who fought and died under that flag were traitors to the United States. Their attempt to violently overthrow the government - an effort which was utterly hopeless from the start -  led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of loyal American citizens and the murder of our president.

If somewhere in my family tree I had a great great grand-daddy who betrayed America in the Civil War, I would hide the photos and pretend it never happened. If pressed I would explain how "everybody" in the South had to fight in the Confederate army, the same way "all" German kids had to join Hitler Youth. I would not be like, proud of it, and waving my great great grand-daddy's traitor flag in anybody's face.  This is real. My grandpa was a soldier for the Axis powers during WWII. We are not proud of that "heritage." We hide the photos and pretend it never happened. He fought in the American army in Korea, and we put those pictures up. The fact that he was EVER involved in killing loyal Americans is something shameful for him and us.

​No, they were not.  And I speak as one who had ancestors who fought on both sides, and I am ashamed of neither.  I also have studied the war and this period of history both academically and as an a hobby, and wrote a thesis on Stonewall Jackson.  You're not educating me; you're displaying your ignorance.

Back then, people in the States, at least in the Southern States, sincerely saw their "country" as being their home state, rather than the federal Union, and it was to their state that they owed their patriotic loyalty, which they saw as a sacred thing.  Most Southerners regarded fighting against their home state as traitorous and dishonorable.  The Union was a creation of the various States, rather than the other way around, and Southerners (as well as many Yankees) believed states should be free to secede if they wished.  Both Lee and Jackson (to use these two prominent examples) fought for the Confederacy out of profound loyalty to their home state, rather than to perpetuate slavery, and both tended to side with the Union, until federal troops were sent in to invade South Carolina.  This tipped Virginia and other "border states" into joining the Confederacy, against what was seen as unjust federal aggression.

Also, freeing of the slaves was originally not even a Union objective.  The Emancipation Proclamation occurred late in the war.

The Southern states did not seek to overthrow the federal government, but to secede and be independent from Washington and the federal government (just as the American colonies sought independence from the British Crown, rather than to overthrow the king in England).

Jackson prayed fervently with others for war to be avoided, and before the war, Lee said if he could, he would personally buy the freedom of every slave if it could prevent war.

Comparing the Confederacy to Hitler and the Nazi regime is just ignorant, false, and cheap (politically correct as it may be).

Men in my family tree fought for what they believed in - to protect their home against the brutal invasion by the Yankees - which involved much destruction, pillage, and rapine against civilians.  They were poor farmers who did not own slaves.