Charleston Shooting Suspect (Derailed: Confederate Flag Debate)

[Guest]

By Abby Phillip June 29 at 4:42 PM  

 

 

The self-proclaimed largest Ku Klux Klan group in America plans to rally outside of the South Carolina statehouse next month, state officials confirmed.

 

The Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, a group that according to its Web site is based in Pelham, N.C., requested permission to rally on the statehouse grounds on July 18 from 3 to 5 p.m., according to Brian Gaines, a spokesman for the state’s Budget and Control Board.

 

The request was made on June 23, Gaines said, just one day after South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) announced that she would call on state lawmakers to take up the issue of removing the flag after a racially motivated attack on a black church that left nine people dead. The Klan group said they expect about 200 people to attend.

 

The group’s Web site prominently displays several versions of the Confederate flag and calls on followers to oppose an attempt at “cultural genocide.”

 

“If you can’t tell they are trying to wipe us out of the history book,” it says. The group has not responded to a request for comment.

 

According to the Web site, the Loyal White Knights seek to unite “white Christian Americans” against Jewish people and mixing with “darker races.”

 

The South Carolina legislature is set to reconvene on July 6, when they are expected to take up legislation that will remove the Confederate flag from its place directly in front of the statehouse building, near a monument to the Confederacy.

 

Over the weekend, however, an activist,Bree Newsome, climbed the 30-foot flag pole and cut the flag down. She was arrested, and the flag was replaced shortly thereafter. Hours later, dozens also held a pro-flag rally outside of the statehouse.

 

A rally hosted by an anti-Semitic, white supremacist group is probably not the kind of support flag proponents are looking for. If anything, it will only make it more difficult for lawmakers to support keeping it flying.

 

According to ABC News 4, Haley greeted news of the rally coldly: “This is our state, and they are not welcome,” she said.

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Guest

[KnightofChrist]

Well floopy flop the KKK to the fires of hell eternal. They claim the American flag is their flag too, and they have used it just as much.

Anyway as I stated earlier the Flag is being used as a distraction to the real threats to Black American. Since June the 18th an estimated 22,512 African-American babies have died due to Black Genocide in America. The same Media that is up in arms against the Confederate Flag, the same Federal Government that is banning the Confederate Flag has no problem, is completely silent and quite frankly does not give a d##n when it comes to those tens of thousands of children. They are in full support of that actually. The flag is a distraction, a distraction away from many things but also to Liberal policies have butchered far more than the devil that killed those innocent souls as they prayed in SC.

Edited June 30, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Papist]

 

 To be honest, Knight you raise some good points, probably some of the best arguments I've ever seen in favor of the flag in question. I've been giving your points some though…hear is how I would like to answer them: 

 

I think that when the flag was commandeered by the blatantly racist groups in the 1960s and before, it wasn't all that much of a stretch for them to do so. Why did they see fit to use the flag for their symbol? Because unfortunately the Confederacy was formed, albeit in a roundabout kind of way, to safeguard the economic boon of slavery itself. Sure, the rights of states to function without federal interference was the immediate and direct cause--- but ultimately slavery was the indirect cause behind that. And so, knowing this, the indirect cause of secession, the KKK saw fit to utilize this flag associated with the Confederacy (the flag of the Confederate armies) as their symbol. It seems that it was rather logical for them to do so actually.

 

 Now let's talk about the Cross… the symbol of Christians was never seen or understood as as having anything to do with after the Crusades which it (the cross) basically predates by 1000 years. When the crusaders commandeered it as their standard under which they went overboard it was more of a stretch for them to use it in this way than it was for the KKK to use the so-called Confederate flag as their symbol. Because Christianity never had anything to do with to dehumanizing anybody as a platform, even in a roundabout way.

 

 

The majority of Muslims don't seem to view the cross as a symbol of hatred. If they did, they wouldn't protect churches in Egypt from destruction, as some of them have done. Or, a better example would be something that happened a few years ago at Catholic University… a lawyer was trying to instigate a feud by claiming that crosses offended Muslim students and for that reason should be taken down. Many Muslim students at the University stated that they actually didn't find offense in the public display of crosses. At worst, it seems that  Muslims associate the cross more as a symbol of suffering and death and they think it strange for Christians to use… if I'm not mistaken, they believe that at the end of time, that  their prophet(s) will destroy all crosses. Anyway, the cross and analogy with the flag doesn't seem to hold up to me. 

The swastika might be a more difficult issue. It originates in Hinduism. Hitler took it and rotated and/or flipped it. The Hindu symbol as I've seen it doesn't resemble the one on Nazi the flag as such… but it does bear a close resemblance all the same. It would be wrong for a Hindu to wear a prominent swastika and attend a bar mitzvah. I think that most Hindus would definitely show a kind of consideration that would prevent them from doing such a thing. At the same time, most Jews would more than likely know that the Hindu wearing a swastika has no intention of equating it to Nazism.

To be honest, I don't think all nostalgic Southerners should necessarily destroy all of their flags. Like I said before, some calls to remove the flag of our ridiculous---removing them from video games and Dukes of Hazzard memorabilia (I had a lunch box and thermos when I was a kid) is just plain dumb.

----

Let's try something… Since you brought up the Democratic party, check out this hypothetical scenario:

 

Suppose that blue states wanted to secede and form a nation under which abortion was a tenant because they depended on money from abortion clinics. Suppose they had a certain flag with a donkey associated with the armies of their new nation. Suppose there was a civil war because these states exercised their right to secede and form a new government. Let's say they lost and abortion was prohibited throughout the land. I would object to public displays of that donkey flag.

 

 

 I should say that while I am admittedly a Yankee (whatever that means… wait, actually I live in Maryland--am I a Yankee?), I have a great appreciation for people and things from the South: I like Paula Deen, peaches, nice weather, fried green tomatoes, okra, and the lovely Daisy Duke (from the original TV show not the trashy movie).

 

Response to your hypothetical scenario.

I do not believe someone's rights should be rescinded b/c one is offended.  There are a lot of things out there to cause offense... if we let it. People choose to be offended....as I am sure this post will offend someone.

[dominicansoul]

These jerks totally hijacked the Order of Penitent's garb and made it a sign of racist hatred, stupid dumbass honkies...!!!

 

But that doesn't stop the Penitents from using it!  Go Spain!

 

[KnightofChrist]

Oh yeah I had totally forgotten that, thank you DS.

[Credo in Deum]

Response to your hypothetical scenario.

I do not believe someone's rights should be rescinded b/c one is offended.  There are a lot of things out there to cause offense... if we let it. People choose to be offended....as I am sure this post will offend someone.

I'm offended you would think someone would be offended.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offended.

[Lilllabettt]

Well floopy flop the KKK to the fires of hell eternal. They claim the American flag is their flag too, and they have used it just as much.

Anyway as I stated earlier the Flag is being used as a distraction to the real threats to Black American. Since June the 18th an estimated 22,512 African-American babies have died due to Black Genocide in America. The same Media that is up in arms against the Confederate Flag, the same Federal Government that is banning the Confederate Flag has no problem, is completely silent and quite frankly does not give a d##n when it comes to those tens of thousands of children. They are in full support of that actually. The flag is a distraction, a distraction away from many things but also to Liberal policies have butchered far more than the devil that killed those innocent souls as they prayed in SC.

That is one stupid bad photoshop job, son.

Did you do that yourself or did somebody get that past you?

[Papist]

I'm offended you would think someone would be offended.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offended.

Told ya.

[KnightofChrist]

 

That is one stupid bad photoshop job, son.

Did you do that yourself or did somebody get that past you?

It's pixelated due to the crappy low compression of the image. I don't believe it to be photoshopped, the typography matches the style of the time.  But perhaps it could be, but most people aren't smart enough to mimic period handwriting fonts. They'll use comic sans or something. But still there are plenty of images of the KKK doing their little marches waving many American Flags.

Edited June 30, 2015 by KnightofChrist

[Credo in Deum]

Oh snaps it's Santa!

Your move, flag haters!

[Seven77]

These jerks totally hijacked the Order of Penitent's garb and made it a sign of racist hatred, stupid dumbass honkies...!!!

 

But that doesn't stop the Penitents from using it!  Go Spain!

 

  Were you making an analogy? I don't think it works for obvious reasons… one group is wearing white bed sheets and coneheads (for lack of a better term) while the other group is wearing purple silk bedsheets and coneheads.

[Seven77]

It's pixelated due to the crappy low compression of the image. I don't believe it to be photoshopped, the typography matches the style of the time.  But perhaps it could be, but most people aren't smart enough to mimic period handwriting fonts. They'll use comic sans or something. But still there are plenty of images of the KKK doing their little marches waving many American Flags.

The odd thing about that picture is that there is no flag anywhere in sight....  that said,  comic sans pretty much smells of elderberries.

[Nihil Obstat]

[dominicansoul]

  Were you making an analogy? I don't think it works for obvious reasons… one group is wearing white bed sheets and coneheads (for lack of a better term) while the other group is wearing purple silk bedsheets and coneheads.

the penitents wear white sometimes, but they looked too much like KKK that I don't think many would notice the difference.     so i went with the  purple garb just to show the gist of their "habit" which predates KKK by centuries...

[Credo in Deum]

  Were you making an analogy? I don't think it works for obvious reasons… one group is wearing white bed sheets and coneheads (for lack of a better term) while the other group is wearing purple silk bedsheets and coneheads.

The Klan wears gold, purple, black, green, blue, and red robes as well.

 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Credo in Deum

[Ice_nine]

Can anybody please show me some people who fought for the confederacy who weren't racist and/or enamored of the institution of slavery? Or is the heritage of the confederacy inextricably linked to those things?

[KnightofChrist]

The odd thing about that picture is that there is no flag anywhere in sight....  that said,  comic sans pretty much smells of elderberries.

It's a real image. After a lot of googling, I'm pretty sure it's from the 1925 when the KKK marched on Washington DC. They really do love the American Flag, all one has to do is google the march to see how very much they love the US flag.

[KnightofChrist]

Can anybody please show me some people who fought for the confederacy who weren't racist and/or enamored of the institution of slavery? Or is the heritage of the confederacy inextricably linked to those things?

My ancestors were too poor to own slaves. The reasons why they fought as passed down to me were as I gave earlier. They fought to protect their family, friends from an invading army. That was their belief.

[KnightofChrist]

the penitents wear white sometimes, but they looked too much like KKK that I don't think many would notice the difference.     so i went with the  purple garb just to show the gist of their "habit" which predates KKK by centuries...

I believe it's pretty clear that the KKK stole the design of their uniforms from the Penitents. The Penitents during Holy Week will walk with a wooden Cross, but they don't burn it. There are other similarities as well suggesting the KKK copied or attempted to hijack the Penitents look.

[Credo in Deum]

An interesting and hilarious read.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html