Freaky Chik Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 haha okay, i take up your dare cept it's gonna have to wait till next week when all of my uni exams etc are over (end of the school year here!) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Dare to take me up on this challenge ;) I'm serious... ehhehehe I've had this challenge on the board for a while. I brought it up to the top in Debate for you. Also, I've had this challenge on a protestant message board for over a year... no one really tried.... One guy started reading the Catechism, and posted that he was up to paragraph 617 and agreed with everything.... Please be sure to look at the footnotes in the Catechism... Here is the challenge: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=627 God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Chik Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 okay cool you all have to remind me this time next week okay? because that's when i'll be definitly over with all uni related stuff, so i can fully focus on it. thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Need we stress the importance of the words 'Official' and not heresay as far as teachings are concerned? for instance you wont find a 'Worshipping Mary' section, because thats not what the Church teachs, prior to popular prot belief. Im kinda stoked about this now. Thanks Freaky for taking the challenge. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Freaky, i don't think u have a chance at proving the Catechism wrong but u are in for an amesome read!!! u might find a few things u disagree with, but i bet u won't be able to prove them wrong. i also pledge to leave the Catholic Church and join ur denom if u do. HAVE FUN! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 Anyone that can prove the Catechism wrong, I'll leave the Catholic Church, join whatever church they wish me to... Tatoo their name on my heart, give them $500.00, and give them my old comic book and baseball card collections (worth $$$). God Bless! Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Anyone that can prove the Catechism wrong, I'll leave the Catholic Church, join whatever church they wish me to... Tatoo their name on my heart, give them $500.00, and give them my old comic book and baseball card collections (worth $$$). God Bless! Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk I second that motion, anyone that can prove the Catechism wrong I will gladly give them IronMonks old comic book and baseball card collection...honest I will..for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Chik Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 hahaha if i can proove it wrong... ironmonk you can keep your baseball cards and comic book collections ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 what does Ironmonk get in return. This is a bet Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 what does Ironmonk get in return. This is a bet Right? Ed writes again.... -----Original Message-----From: Ed Rice [mailto:edrice4@linkny.com] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:12 AM To: irishmax@tampabay.rr.com Subject: Back on line with katholic question Max, Doubtless you and I differ greatly on what we know to be truth. I greatly weary of your tactic whereby you call everyone who disagrees with you a liar. I shall overlook your repeated name calling mannerisms and ask you to examine with me a single Bible truth and then contrast it with what your Roman church has been teaching you. One Question, a Grand Divisor of Truth and False Religions In all human studies of theology there is no one greater question than the one I shall address here. In all the divisions of religions, especially "Christian religions," there is not a more clear divisor which separates teachers, denominations, faiths and churches into two distinct piles or groupings of "true religion" and "false religion." The question was asked of Jesus himself while he walked here on this earth. This question, answered wrongly, has formed many a mother church which gives birth to innumerable daughter churches which are tainted by the falsehood of mother's false teachings on this one question. All of mankind is responsible for asking and pursuing truthful answer to this one question, and we should let its answer divide Baptists and Catholics into two distinct piles and call one false and one true. The question: "What shall man do to attain eternal life." The question looms before every religion. If the Bible is true, and you and I both believe that it is, then there is but one right answer to this question. Again, how a teacher, denomination, religion or church answers this one questions determines weather they are a true religion or a false religion. Let me state first how a Baptist categorically, across the board answers this question. Then I shall be glad to hear as concise an answer from you as to how your catholic church taught you an answer. Whereupon you and I shall have the tools to decide which religion is the false teacher, Baptist Bible Doctrine, or Catholic Papal Doctrine. The Baptist believe the clear Bible teaching that there is no works a sinner can do in this life to procure eternal life. It is absolutely a free gift made available to all men through Jesus Christ. Not through his church, not through any good work, not through any physical deed or bead, penance or substance, baptism or conformation. Nothing but faith in Jesus Christ and his promise of GRACE can bring about eternal life to fallen man. And when Jesus Christ gives you this eternal life he don't leave you sitting around wondering if you got it. You are literally born again as he said, born spiritually wherein you are 1) Converted via repentance and faith in Christ, 2) you are Justified before God through Christ, 3) you are Regenerated or quickened, made alive where once you were dead in trespasses and sin, 4) you are Baptized into the body of Christ, (no water here) and 5) you are Indwelt, permanently, by the Holy Spirit of God. These all happen in an instant and are all permanent and everlasting, thus the explanation of Christ "Hath, (present perfect tense) everlasting life." Now when these five events occur simultaneously in ones life, there is little doubt that some thing has happened to the individual and he or she can tell you when they got saved, when they were born again, who showed them the scriptures and how great it is to be saved and know it. We call that giving a testimony of when God saved you, mine is written on my web page, every member of a Baptist Church has this salvation testimony. Now lets look at a few verifying scriptures. Eph 2:8 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." You may not get a full understanding of what it means to get saved from this sentence but it is a cinch that you won't get there with any works that you do. Notice Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Clearly no works at all are in ones salvation experience. Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. These passages are clear about salvation of man's soul being by grace and no work of any sort being involved. It is a free gift, and must be accepted as such as so eloquently described in the whole dissertation of Romans. Further these excerpts are completely in context, so much so that we recommend that the whole book of Ephesians and the whole book of Romans be read to more fully understand the freedom of this gift, and the reality of an event called salvation that includes the five above mentioned simultaneous events. That is Baptist Doctrine of salvation. It is straight from the Bible and concludes that man can have eternal life, and know that he has it, by being 'born again.' Further the Bible says 1John5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. Any religion that would add some work to this free gift is a false religion. And any church that would offer eternal life up for sale to highest bidders is especially vile. So now I'll bid you do your homework, and tell me what does your Roman church say concerning eternal life? Ask your priest what you must do to know for certain that you have eternal life and record his answer. What is your Roman church teaching this week that one must do to attain eternal life. I know what they taught in the past 1600 years, since they started baptizing infants and broke off from the Baptist Church and joined hands with the government of Rome and they have been a false church a false religion on this regard. So, don't just call me liar here, enlighten me. How does a Roman Catholic attain eteranl life, and know that they have(present perfect tense) it? (In 2 pages or less please) Pastor Ed Rice, Good Samaritan Baptist Church, 54 Main St. Box 99, Dresden NY 14441 ------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Max [mailto:irishmax@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 1:57 PM To: 'Ed Rice' Subject: RE: Back on line with katholic question Dear Ed, When someone tells something that is not true about the Catholic Church, then that is a lie or it could be a misunderstanding. A person who claims to have been Catholic, and tells untruths about the Catholic Church and her teachings, is a liar. As far as what the Church teaches for salvation, the Church teaches that Christ is the reason for salvation. The Catholic Church teaches that the only reason why we get to Heaven is because Christ died for our sins. This is preached at Mass, and if you ask any Priest, or Catholic who actually knows their faith. From the Catechism: 617 The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation"449 http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sec...chpt2art4p2.htm The Catholic Church has taught me that everything is for Christ... The Catholic Church has showed me that everything they do is for Christ. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, Max Knight of Columbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Pasture Ed need-ith to-ith get-ith a real-ith bible. King James ruin-ith his-ith mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Pastor Ed Rice, Good Samaritan Baptist Church, 54 Main St. Box 99, Dresden NY 14441 Everyone get in the car. We have his address. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Everyone get in the car. We have his address. eggs? check. toliet paper? check. and im JUST KIDDING!!! i would never do something like that... hey how about we all stand outside of his house and pray the rosary and shout out of a loud speaker all the false stuff hes made.... rosary? check. loudspeaker? check. address? check. :ph34r: remind me never to tell you guys my address :ph34r: j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeraMaria Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Everyone get in the car. We have his address. LOL great idea.... *everyone piles into the phatmobile van* Watch out, Pastor Ed, phatmass is gonna get ya!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 There is someone who lives in my neighborhood who had a truck parked in his yard with the sign "No Hope in the Pope". Whenever I walked past it I would whistle "Immaculate Mary". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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