The State Of Israel

[Resurrexi]

Opinions?

Edited December 12, 2009 by Resurrexi

[bhrhrahraa]

u support and hail israel but you forget that ur own ppl are suffering under the oppression in palestine. open ur eyes and look around. there r christians in palestines, not just muslims.
if the only reason u want israel to be a state and palestine destroyed is cos u hate muslims then ur abandoning ur own people, the very christians living under oppression and pain and torture in PALESTINE.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='12 December 2009 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1260661078' post='2019379']
u support and hail israel
[/quote]

Obviously, as the head of a crusader kingdom, We do not support any other state that claims to exist in Our territories.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Winchester]

Yeah. Torture. Whatev.

[KnightofChrist]

Two justified reasons not to support "Palestine", because of Islamic persecution of Christians.

[url="http://newsblaze.com/story/20081224160149zzzz.nb/topstory.html"]Hamas Enacts Islamic Laws, Including: Amputation, Crucifixion, Lashes[/url]

By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook


Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in Gaza have approved a new bill "to implement Koranic punishments," including hand amputation, crucifixion, corporal punishment and execution. Drinking, owning or producing wine is punished by 40 lashes, while drinking in public adds three months' imprisonment. Several laws are directed against Hamas's Palestinian rivals, including a law intended to inhibit non-Hamas negotiators by sentencing to death anyone who was "appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest."

The following is the description as it appears today on the Al Arabiya website:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/12/24/62699.html

Headline: Hamas approves law of punishment by lashes, amputating hands, crucifying, and execution - in order to implement the Islamic Sharia law. Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council approved in its meeting in Gaza a new bill proposed by the Hamas who have a majority in the Legislative Council, whose purpose is "to implement Koranic punishments."

The newspaper Al Hayat of London reported on Dec. 24, 2008, that this step is seen as unprecedented, and has brought criticism and concern from human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip, especially as this law includes punishments by lashes, cutting off of hands, crucifixion, and execution... The language of the law proposes "primary and secondary" laws. Primary laws include: "Koranic laws, blood revenge, lashes, crucifixion, and execution ..."

The text stresses: "These punishments will not be canceled or pardoned ... except if pardoned by the victim himself... Section 59 of the law establishes that "punishment of death will be enacted on any Palestinian who intentionally does one of the following: Raised a weapon against Palestine on behalf of the enemy during war, was appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest, performed a hostile action against a foreign country in a way that endangers Palestine in war or in harming political relations, served a foreign army in time of war, advised or helped soldiers to enlist in this army, weakened the spirit or the force of resistance of the people, or spied against Palestine especially during war."

The punishment of lashes appears in many sections of the law. Section 84 states that: "Whoever drinks wine, owns or produces wine will be punished with 40 lashes if he is Muslim, and anyone who drinks wine, or angers another person [with wine], or causes him distress when drinking wine in a public place, or goes to a public place while drunk, will be punished with no less than 40 lashes and imprisonment for the minimum of three months." [Al-Arabiya, Dec. 24, 2008]


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGY[/media]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGY

Edited December 13, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='12 December 2009 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1260662720' post='2019404']
Two justified reasons not to support "Palestine", because of Islamic persecution of Christians.

[url="http://newsblaze.com/story/20081224160149zzzz.nb/topstory.html"]Hamas Enacts Islamic Laws, Including: Amputation, Crucifixion, Lashes[/url]

By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook


Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in Gaza have approved a new bill "to implement Koranic punishments," including hand amputation, crucifixion, corporal punishment and execution. Drinking, owning or producing wine is punished by 40 lashes, while drinking in public adds three months' imprisonment. Several laws are directed against Hamas's Palestinian rivals, including a law intended to inhibit non-Hamas negotiators by sentencing to death anyone who was "appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest."

The following is the description as it appears today on the Al Arabiya website:

[url="http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/12/24/62699.html"]http://www.alarabiya...2/24/62699.html[/url]

Headline: Hamas approves law of punishment by lashes, amputating hands, crucifying, and execution - in order to implement the Islamic Sharia law. Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council approved in its meeting in Gaza a new bill proposed by the Hamas who have a majority in the Legislative Council, whose purpose is "to implement Koranic punishments."

The newspaper Al Hayat of London reported on Dec. 24, 2008, that this step is seen as unprecedented, and has brought criticism and concern from human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip, especially as this law includes punishments by lashes, cutting off of hands, crucifixion, and execution... The language of the law proposes "primary and secondary" laws. Primary laws include: "Koranic laws, blood revenge, lashes, crucifixion, and execution ..."

The text stresses: "These punishments will not be canceled or pardoned ... except if pardoned by the victim himself... Section 59 of the law establishes that "punishment of death will be enacted on any Palestinian who intentionally does one of the following: Raised a weapon against Palestine on behalf of the enemy during war, was appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest, performed a hostile action against a foreign country in a way that endangers Palestine in war or in harming political relations, served a foreign army in time of war, advised or helped soldiers to enlist in this army, weakened the spirit or the force of resistance of the people, or spied against Palestine especially during war."

The punishment of lashes appears in many sections of the law. Section 84 states that: "Whoever drinks wine, owns or produces wine will be punished with 40 lashes if he is Muslim, and anyone who drinks wine, or angers another person [with wine], or causes him distress when drinking wine in a public place, or goes to a public place while drunk, will be punished with no less than 40 lashes and imprisonment for the minimum of three months." [Al-Arabiya, Dec. 24, 2008]


[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGY"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_1iM-kzqAGY[/url][/media]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1iM-kzqAGY"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_1iM-kzqAGY[/url]
[/quote]


One can be against the State of Israel and also against the State of Palestine. The Vatican is historically anti-zionist (NOT anti-semitic). The State of Israel has very little to do with the religion of Judaeism anyway, and most orthodox Jews are against the State because it is completely secular.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='12 December 2009 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1260663028' post='2019412']
Jud[b]ae[/b]ism
[/quote]

Somebody's been reading a lot of Latin lately!

[extempers]

http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/peace-is-possible/the-catholic-view-on-social-justice-and-globalisation/the-catholic-view-on-palestine/


Gandhi:
http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-gandhi170903.htm



Archbishop Desmond Tutu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1957644.stm


Good site:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Documentary interviewing mostly Jews and Christians regarding Israel's crimes against humanity
Occupation 101
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0248019CAE261C1D&search_query=occupation+101


The Muslim position is already known.

[KnightofChrist]

The State of Israel has its problems, but Islamic controlled Palestine legalized Crucifixion, on Christmas Eve, clearly a great insult to Christianity. Also in is a well know fact that the State of Israel has so many problems in the Middle East because it is "Jewish" and many hate the Jews because of Hitlers influence in the Islamic word. His book "Mein Kampf" is still a best-seller in Islamic Nations.

[Winchester]

Yeah, the horrible crimes against humanity, but they regularly abstain from immediate attacks even though groups like hamas love to surround themselves with non-combatants when launching attacks. Then it's boohoo when the non-combatants get killed and we're supposed to pretend Israel's the bad guy.

Hey, put "loosechange" up, too. It's a similar hack job.

[url="http://www.aish.com"]aish.com[/url]

[url="http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48925622.html"]War crimes[/url]

Edited December 13, 2009 by Winchester

[extempers]

^Are you saying chief editors of Haaretz, former congressmen, Jewish rabbis, Catholic bishops and Amnesty International representatives are all part of a hack job similar to Loose Change?

Try again please.

And yes, the claims of Hamas hiding behind children is such a great excuse. All the more reason to justify the killing of children?

I guess Israeli soldiers using children as a shield works too? Or using internationally condemned weapons on innocent civilians?
Come now, for every link you can possibly post, theres many more that are factual, from the ground, and not some Israeli army propaganda or conjecture from pro-zionists in America.


I should have no reason to debate anyone on this topic. If you disagree, go argue with Archbishop Desmond Tutu please.

(bajillion hysterics)

Edited December 13, 2009 by extempers

[extempers]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='12 December 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1260672028' post='2019476']
The State of Israel has its problems, but Islamic controlled Palestine legalized Crucifixion, on Christmas Eve, clearly a great insult to Christianity. Also in is a well know fact that the State of Israel has so many problems in the Middle East because it is "Jewish" and many hate the Jews because of Hitlers influence in the Islamic word. His book "Mein Kampf" is still a best-seller in Islamic Nations.
[/quote]
I'm scared to even ask for your sources. I keep up with the anti-islamic, anti-arab and kill the Palestinian arguments and I've never heard this.

[Winchester]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1260675581' post='2019495']
for every link you can possibly post, theres a bajillion more that are factual, [/quote]
I think that's an hysterical sentence.

I know too many Israelis to buy your puke. If Israel were as terrible as you say, they would have pushed the enemy into the ocean long ago. And since Jews aren't in the process of beheading non-combatants and ramming planes into buildings, your peeps have zero cred with me. [s]Your choice of words reveals the blind racism your religion's instilled in you. [/s]
Jog on.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Winchester

[Winchester]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1260675581' post='2019495']

I should have no reason to debate anyone on this topic. If you disagree, go argue with Archbishop Desmond Tutu please.
[/quote]
[url="http://www.aish.com/jw/id/48938802.html"]Another view.[/url]

I am aware he's since spoken out.

Boohoo checkpoints. If they didn't blow themselves up in civilian areas, there wouldn't be any.

[extempers]

And you are the only one that knows Israelis?
You would be surprised how many Israelis are against the oppression and occupation of Palestinians, but they remain a large minority under the control of a hawkish government.


But I'm not here to debate Israel. The information is available for everyone who looks for it.

Pardon my hysterics.


God knows best.

[Winchester]

[url="http://www.aish.com/jw/me/78624737.html"]Another view.[/url]

You should probably only post a quarter bajillion so you don't overload the site.

[Winchester]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1260676927' post='2019508']
And you are the only one that knows Israelis?
You would be surprised how many Israelis are against the oppression and occupation of Palestinians, but they remain a large minority under the control of a hawkish government.[/quote]
No, I probably wouldn't be.

[quote]
But I'm not here to debate Israel. The information is available for everyone who looks for it.[/quote]
I have. I disagree. And I supported the Serbs when they attacked UN safehavens that were being used by their enemies to organize attacks.
[quote]
Pardon my hysterics.
[/quote]
Me too.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1260675667' post='2019496']
I'm scared to even ask for your sources. I keep up with the anti-islamic, anti-arab and kill the Palestinian arguments and I've never heard this.
[/quote]

The source for Hamas legalizing crucifixion is the Al Arabiya website: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/12/24/62699.html

The Source that Mein Kampf is a best seller in Islamic Nations is [url="http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/the-booksellers-of-tehran"]The Wall Street Journal[/url], [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/mar/29/turkey.books"]The Guardian[/url] and [url="http://www.nationalreview.com/29july02/pryce-jones072902.asp"]National Review.[/url]


Link fixed.

Edited December 13, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[extempers]

You keep posting from aish.com
I really don't want to get into this, I'm sure there are many Catholics on here that stand for truth.
God willing my last post on here...

Btw, I think its safe to assume the human rights founder, a zionist, would object to its current Jewish leader calling out
Israel for obvious war crimes.

Civilians as shields
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0309/p99s01-duts.html
http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp
http://www.adalah.org/eng/humanshields.php


Illegal detention without trial
http://www.btselem.org/english/press_releases/20091014.asp

Rabbi leader calls for annihilation of Arabs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm


5 myths that sanction Israel's wars
http://www.antiwar.com/cook/?articleid=9407


Israeli genocide
http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html


Israeli Jewish edict to kill "enemies children"
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2009/11/13/kill-enemy-children-jewish-edict/#more-4974


Israeli wars planned before any soldier kidnapping
http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/01196_it_time_stand_against_israel.html


Jews against Zionism open letter to Pr. Obama
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=175


Another jewish movement
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

One more
http://www.nkusa.org/

Er one more
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/jews_against_zionism.html

Israeli war crimes in Gaza massacre
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/15/international_investigation_finds_there_were_war_c/

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='extempers' date='12 December 2009 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1260678350' post='2019520']
You keep posting from aish.com
[/quote]


No that is not the site I sourced from, nor is the site I found the sources.

But your respose begs the question, is the Al Arabiya, a pro-islamic newspaper, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian and National Review are all in a conspiracy of some kind with aish.com?