The Be-All End-All Muslim Thread

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='22 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1266900489' post='2061648']
. . . We are human and make mistakes, God knows I've made plenty, but we must be seen to at least trying to do the right thing. The Pharisees were very good at rules and regulations all 1000 of them but that's not what Jesus taught and it's not what God wants. [/quote]
We all make mistakes, but the Church's Eucharistic worship is not our creation, nor is it the work of the earthly priest; instead, it is a work of Christ the Lord Himself who bestows His grace through His earthly minister. Christ is the only source of true worship (ορθο δόξα) and He never made, nor will He ever make, a mistake.

Finally, it must always be borne in mind that truth and charity are inseparably bound together, and so it is not a true act of charity to allow a Muslim to think that Mohammed was a prophet, or that the Islamic religious ideology can bring salvation. A Catholic must unequivocally proclaim the Gospel of Christ, and do all in his power - through the grace of God - to bring Muslims (and other pagans) out of religious error into the Truth, and of course Truth is not an abstract concept; instead, Truth is Christ incarnate.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Mark of the Cross]

Well I agree with much of what you people write and it would be truth if it were aimed at [u]All religions,[/u] but I can't help but perceive that sometimes I think that I detect a hint of [i]hatred[/i] on these often recurring Muslim threads. In fact I did report one post for a definitely hateful remark. I don't know what the outcome was, I didn't go back to look, having done what I'm sure Jesus would have me do. People [i]seem[/i] to be intent on seeing only evil and pouting it. And it's not that I defend Muslims particularly, as I stated I don't know any muslims. I would do the same for any religion unless it were obviously evil. If people want to evangelise by saying that the only way to God is through Jesus then I'm fine with that and most definitely in agreement. As far as the prophets of old being blunt and being persecuted for it well I have received plenty of the same and even here at PM. We have to remember that what we do to other people we also do to Jesus. Some time ago a person (Catholic?) on PM made a very cruel and unnecessarily hurtful comment about one of my posts, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=101131&view=findpost&p=2019254"]I lost it against PM calling it evil and unregulated[/url]. I was wrong to do that and I got a reprimand from a Mod to whom I apologised and requested the deletion of the post. My mentor suggested 1/ are the people on PM what they claim to be? Sometimes people claim to be something for their own glory, others so they can bring it to disrepute by their own evil actions. 2/ She suggested that I do not write on PM any-more. But I guess I am a glutton for punishment and I have to and do love the people here as much as anybody else. And I have to do what I have to do. In a homily a priest reminded us that for each of us God has a purpose which is unique to each person. Some will be required to be severe. Is a Catholic soldier who kills another person to defend freedom and the innocent not serving his purpose? My purpose is not to convert others by being blunt. It is by showing them how I serve my God by my love for them and everything that lives. I am also not exempt from being persecuted for my faith. I have been treated harshly in charities that I have supported and even in the Church it's self. But Jesus is always there to console me and recent events have cemented the belief of his love for me and for all others including Muslims, Jews and atheists. I am now not free from personal sin and never probably will be on my own, but I am 100% sure of my faith.

I'll tell you something else, there is a certain person who writes on PM who has got his facts completly screwed up. BUT there is a but, he has gone to a great deal of trouble to learn as much as he can about religions and he is here not for his own glory and point scoring or to win debates, but for his percieved guidance and love of others. I sense a very kind, sweet gentle person whom Jesus loves dearly and so do I. I'm sure if I make it to heaven I will see him there beside the Lord Jesus.
I do hope you won't percieve me as boasting as has been in the past, that is not my purpose at PM.

[Varg]

Yes, no, absolutely not.

[Winchester]

The third question is poorly worded. Oppression of some groups is acceptable, as is violence against some groups. The answer to that question is 'yes'.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 February 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1267046905' post='2062592']
The third question is poorly worded. Oppression of some groups is acceptable, as is violence against some groups. The answer to that question is 'yes'.
[/quote]

You are correct. How astute. Are you a lawyer? maybe you should be!
The answer to the third question is yes. We need to use oppression and violence against criminals and extremists.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='24 February 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1267048155' post='2062600']
You are correct. How astute. Are you a lawyer? maybe you should be!
The answer to the third question is yes. We need to use oppression and violence against criminals and extremists.
[/quote]
I didn't mean it that mean.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 February 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1267056470' post='2062646']
I didn't mean it that mean.
[/quote]
I didn't mean it to sound so severe either. What I meant was that police or soldiers will need to use lethal force to enforce the will of the law. (violence) And people who commit crimes should be dealt with by jail terms (oppressing them)

[Winchester]

We should also oppress anime fans.

[Veridicus]

[Socrates]

I voted "no" on #3, but what exactly constitutes "abuse and oppression" (especially with the "emotional or otherwise" clause) is very much open to interpretation.

Most modern liberals would call any refusal to condone homosexual behavior, or the state not recognizing "gay marriage," to constitute "emotional or otherwise" abuse and oppression of homosexuals.

In its own way, contemporary liberalism is more perverse and evil than Islam.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 February 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1267065584' post='2062704']
We should also oppress anime fans.
[/quote]

Violence would be more fun!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' date='24 February 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1267065584' post='2062704']
We should also oppress anime fans.
[/quote]
[size="1"]Good thing I'm closeted. I'm so ashamed of my weakness.[/size]

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Socrates' date='22 February 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1266899339' post='2061636']
The "defending Islam" remark was not directed at you. I kind of used your post as a springboard to address some general issues, sorry if I was unclear.
[/quote]

Ah, my mistake. Pax!

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='23 February 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1266903516' post='2061696']
You're the best!
[/quote]

What can I say, I try.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='25 February 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1267074047' post='2062747']
Violence would be more fun!
[/quote]
Violence could be the means of oppression.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='22 February 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1266888364' post='2061513']
Correct.

I'm also confused as to how you think Islam is a true religion.


And as to why Dominican Soul finds oppression, abuse, and/or violence acceptable.
[/quote]

I don't like labeling things a "false religion" just like I don't like tossing about the word "cult." Part of the reason for that is because I don't believe in thinking such Catholicism = truth, therefor everything else = lie.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='03 March 2010 - 08:04 AM' timestamp='1267621488' post='2065863']
I don't like labeling things a "false religion" just like I don't like tossing about the word "cult." Part of the reason for that is because I don't believe in thinking such Catholicism = truth, therefor everything else = lie.
[/quote]
A religion can only be true if it was established by God. We believe in one church. The Church has more than once called other religions false. You needn't do it--it's been done for you, already.

I have no problem opposing a dead thing, which is what a false religion is. The truth in a false religion can be argued as not a member of that religion, just as we in mortal sin cut ourselves off from the Body of Christ and die, so a religion that is false is dead and those living members which it acknowledges are not really its members.

[Saint Therese]

Okay, who voted yes to question number three??

[MIKolbe]

obviously a muslim

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='03 March 2010 - 09:15 AM' timestamp='1267632947' post='2065924']
Okay, who voted yes to question number three??
[/quote]
This is a public poll, which means that you can click on the links and see who voted on each question.

[Saint Therese]

Winchester! Ha!!