The Be-All End-All Muslim Thread

[Lounge Daddy]

While you're at it, lure some more Muslims over here so that you can call Islam a false religion and evil, and throw pictures of Jesus on the cross at them and ask for their reaction.

And then you can shrug and wonder why they didn't convert.
Unless of course, your entire goal is to feel so very correct about yourselves -- which I think it is.

Peace.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='05 March 2010 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1267831482' post='2067276']
That's what I was saying. The Catholic Church is a political party.
[/quote]
The Catholic Church is the body of Christ, and not a political party.

[Winchester]

Your devotion to anarchy (which is not Catholi) is clouding your vision.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='05 March 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1267831482' post='2067276']
That's what I was saying. The Catholic Church is a political party.
[/quote]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='05 March 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1267831562' post='2067277']
Yes.
[/quote]
I can only pray you're being sarcastic here.


[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='05 March 2010 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1267832201' post='2067281']
You can go around and point to everyone and say "false religion!" and "evil" if you want. I just think that's a terrible starting point, and, to me, it seems like a protestant thing to do.

Maybe I just know far too many protestants who do that, and include even Catholics under that heading ... and all it does is make them feel more right. It doesn't seem to win hearts and minds. And it implies that everyone following these "evil" and "false religions" are condemning themselves to hell -- also a protestant tendency.

I'm a Catholic because I believe it is the fullness of truth. That's different than saying that I am a Catholic because I think there is zero truth to be found elsewhere. I am a Catholic because I believe that it is the easiest path to heaven. I am not a Catholic because I think it is the exclusive path to heaven.

Judge and condemn and point fingers if you want. Maybe it makes you feel better, and more right. It's not for me.
[/quote]
This wasn't about going up to Muslims and telling them their religion is false and evil, but about Catholics praising and defending the false religion of Mohammed (which, as we all agree, denies Christ's divinity and role of Savior) to other Catholics.

The fact remains that [i]Extra Ecclesiam Nola Salu[/i]s still stands. Outside Christ's Church, there is no salvation. To be saved, one must be baptized into the Church, either sacramentally, or by blood or desire. We leave judgment of whether individual Muslims may be saved to God; but as was pointed out, if any Muslims are saved, it is [i]in spite of[/i] their allegiance to Islam, not [i]because of[/i] it. Men are saved only by Christ. No one is saved by Islam.
Christ is the [i]only[/i] Way to salvation, not simply one of many ways, or the best way. To say otherwise is the heresy of religious indifferentism.

In dealing with Muslims, I wouldn't go up to them and tell them their religion is false, but I would not say it is true or praise it. I would instead insist that the Gospel of Christ is true.
It's not necessary to tell Muslims their religion is false. They are already quite aware we as Christians believe that, just as Muslims regard Christians as infidels. They are smart enough to know our two religions are contrary to one another. Pretending that both religions are somehow true is fundamentally dishonest, does nothing to advance Christ, and merely insults the intelligence of the Muslim.

For all your finger-wagging about "judging" and "finger-pointing," you're mighty quick to judge the motives of those of us on here calling Islam false. But, if it makes you feel better, and gives you the politically-correct "ecumenical" warm-fuzzies of knowing you're better than all us backwards unenlightened neanderthals, then go ahead.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Socrates

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='03 March 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1267658889' post='2066204']
Jesus was crucified because of the fact that the Jews saw him as a threat to their power. They wished to rule by their man made laws rather than the laws of love which Jesus was teaching. The Christians were fed to the lions because the Romans saw there emperor as a deity and he was insanely jealous of the idea of a greater authority. 2000 years ago were cruel and barbaric times. Authority was in the habit of ruling by savagery. People were not ready for Jesus words of love and kindness to your neighbour.
If I had a Muslim friend and I wanted to convert them. To say to them that your prophet is false and so is your religion would be an absolutely stupid approach and it's not exactly true. We can easily justify it by arguing that any religion not based on Jesus words is false but it's still a stupid approach. Muslims revere Jesus PBUH and they love God. In all honesty one would have to say they are closer to truth than most alternate religions or atheists.
[/quote]

No, Jesus was Crucified because He is the TRUTH, the WAY and the LIFE...and to fulfill Holy Scriptures, that the "stone which the builders rejected has become the Cornerstone." I don't care how anyone else sees the reasons for His Crucifixion and death (political, power playing, jealousy, etc.) My Faith has always taught me Jesus died because His message was Life-giving. He brought TRUTH into the world, and the world rejected that TRUTH by hanging Him on a cross...

[quote name='Winchester' date='03 March 2010 - 09:13 PM' timestamp='1267668803' post='2066250']
We're not badgering atheist friends, we're discussing Islam amongst Catholics.

And I'm astute enough to know that different tactics are called for at different times. At no time should I hide or avoid the truth. At no time should I give into the desire for false peace by using bad philosophy and not acknowledging the difference between the believer and his belief.

You seem to imply that the only option in telling the truth is "badgering". I reject that. I reject also the notion that human behavior will fully determine conversion. If such is the case, then we are culpable for every failure to convert and there is no act of God involved in conversion. It also makes us wholly responsible for all succesful conversions.


I repeat: There is a difference between a believer and his beliefs and I am under absolutely no obligation as a Catholic to say a belief is beautiful when that belief is false. I am under no Catholic obligation to praise a religion made by man. I can respect the believer while not paying homage to his religion or merely acknowledging its good aspects, which I've already pointed out from a Catholic perspective do not belong to the religion itself.
[/quote]
Thanks, Winchester for speaking the TRUTH...it is ridiculous to assume that just because we Catholics stand for the TRUTH that our Faith is in fact, the Fullness of TRUTH, and the narrow road which leads us to Jesus Christ and Eternal Life, that we somehow are badgering people of other beliefs... I can't count how many people I've helped find their way to Jesus, because I was upfront with them about my beliefs, rather than watering down my Faith to somehow appease them...that's not how St. Paul did it. That's not how St. Dominic did it. Evangelization requires you standing up for what you believe in, or else you'll fall for anything...

Edited March 6, 2010 by dominicansoul

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='07 March 2010 - 04:16 AM' timestamp='1267895783' post='2067536']
No, Jesus was Crucified because He is the TRUTH, the WAY and the LIFE...and to fulfill Holy Scriptures, that the "stone which the builders rejected has become the Cornerstone." I don't care how anyone else sees the reasons for His Crucifixion and death (political, power playing, jealousy, etc.) My Faith has always taught me Jesus died because His message was Life-giving. He brought TRUTH into the world, and the world rejected that TRUTH by hanging Him on a cross...

I can't count how many people I've helped find their way to Jesus, because I was upfront with them about my beliefs, rather than watering down my Faith to somehow appease them...that's not how St. Paul did it. That's not how St. Dominic did it. Evangelization requires you standing up for what you believe in, or else you'll fall for anything...
[/quote]

Although I can't see why people would reject truth and want lies for no reason not based on greed, power or jealousy, the people you have helped find Jesus would have been achieved by the truth that you argue above. Because it is really truth. To tell someone that their belief is false may be a truth.. yet it's also not, because it will most likely lead someone away from Jesus. And anything that leads people from Jesus is a lie and therefore is not a truth. If someone comes to PM looking for Jesus and they read your first paragraph then they may have found what they seek, but if they read hatred and contempt for the beliefs of another, then this will result in that person thinking "Jesus is not here!" And that will be a truth that they will have found, an unfortunate one. No one suggests that you water down your faith. If you want to stand on a street corner shouting about it, then fantastic that would be really showing the courage of conviction. A good sports wo/man defeats their opposition with their skill, not by their opponents weakness.

And I gave 'lounge Daddy' a second point to someone else's because I thought what he wrote was fair comment. Someone took away my right to do that! They think only their friends have a right to pluses. The MM forum doesn't have a minus function. I wonder if this makes them more Christian than PM on this particular aspect. Interesting thought don't you think?