I Feel Defeated

[tinytherese]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1268682724' post='2073592']
i also deeply resent the attitude that of a previous poster that "many (adult) Catholics do not have the advantage of sound theological knowledge, much less the advantage of a devout faith-practice" to instruct there own children in the faith, etc.

[/quote]

With all due respect, the majority of Catholics today born within the last few decades (and then some) don't even know the basics of the faith and are not devout. So many use contraception, support gay marriage, are pro-choice, and sometimes skip mass. Unfortunately, there are not that many exceptions. Heterox beliefs are abundant among the faithful. I understand that you knew how to serve as an example for your children and instruct them on the faith, but you are in the minority. I went to Catholic schools from pre-school to high school and both of my parents were Catholic. Those Catholic schools were jokes when it came to catechesis and my parents were definitely (and still are) ignorant about a lot of essential things about being Catholic. I had to learn about my faith from watching EWTN. Unfortunately, the poor catechesis I experienced beforehand is extremely common.

Edited March 15, 2010 by tinytherese

[add]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='15 March 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1268690935' post='2073653']
With all due respect, the majority of Catholics today born within the last few decades (and then some) don't even know the basics of the faith and are not devout. So many use contraception, support gay marriage, are pro-choice, and sometimes skip mass. Unfortunately, there are not that many exceptions. Heterox beliefs are abundant among the faithful. I understand that you knew how to serve as an example for your children and instruct them on the faith, but you are in the minority. I went to Catholic schools from pre-school to high school and both of my parents were Catholic. Those Catholic schools were jokes when it came to catechesis and my parents were definitely (and still are) ignorant about a lot of essential things about being Catholic. I had to learn about my faith from watching EWTN. Unfortunately, the poor catechesis I experienced beforehand is extremely common.
[/quote]

catholic schools are way better that public

[add]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='15 March 2010 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1268685595' post='2073617']
That they're not very good Catholics, have caused scandal to the faithful, and probably set a poor example of Catholicism for their children.
Of course I'm making generalizations about the Kennedys which are unfair. I don't know who all of them are, so my comment applies to the ones I am aware of. There may indeed be members of the Kennedy family who are orthodox and faithful Catholics. [/disclaimer]
[/quote]

o, so that is what happened, them palozi and kennidy kids didn't get to go the catholic pre-school. no wonder they turned out so bad.

[Slappo]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1268692897' post='2073677']
o, so that is what happened, them palozi and kennidy kids didn't get to go the catholic pre-school. no wonder they turned out so bad.
[/quote]

Pelosi and Kennedy are extremes...

The average Catholic does not have a Bachelor's in Theology, nor does the average Catholic read curial documents, papal encyclicals, the GIRM, the catechism, or even scripture on a regular basis.

The average Catholic does a poor job of catechizing, and often times it isn't their fault. The fact is that it is there.




Like I've said before. Such classes at a parish are a supplement to the faith, not the faith themselves. It ought to be that the parents raise the children in the faith and it is supplemented by the ccd classes. That is, the classes reinforce what the parents are teaching. It is good for a child's learning to be positively reinforced by more than just the parents.

[Slappo]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1268692520' post='2073672']
catholic schools are way better that public
[/quote]

That is completely subjective.

I'd rather a halfway decent public school than a heretical catholic school.

At least one of them my children will know the teachings are secular. The other are supposed to be Catholic but are often... in fact... heretical.

[add]

[quote name='Slappo' date='15 March 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1268695224' post='2073703']
That is completely subjective.

I'd rather a halfway decent public school than a heretical catholic school.

At least one of them my children will know the teachings are secular. The other are supposed to be Catholic but are often... in fact... heretical.
[/quote]

support your school

first you say we need more structured programs for youths outside the home because most Catholics are ignorant and now you defame catholic schools ? i 'm confused

[Slappo]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1268698586' post='2073730']
support your school

first you say we need more structured programs for youths outside the home because most Catholics are ignorant and now you defame catholic schools ? i 'm confused
[/quote]


I would like more structured Catholic programs.

A lot of Catholic schools do not have Catholic programs. They have protestant programs because they are heretical. (I originally said most, I do not know that for sure so I edited). Basically... I would be just as picky about the Catholic school I allow my child to attend as I would the public school. If it was a good Catholic school that was in line with the Magisterium, then yes I would support that school. Unfortunately you can't assume that. To be consistent however, I would say the same about parish programs. If the program at my parish is heretical I would take the steps necessary to approach the pastor, the bishop, and then the curia if necessary. If the program remained heretical there is no way my child would be attending. Then when other children ask why, my child can say what errors the program has because of the solid formation he has already been receiving at home.


That's why I'd rather homeschool my children, or be the religion teacher at the Catholic school (or my wife for that matter since she'll have a BA in Theology as well).

Edited March 16, 2010 by Slappo

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1268692897' post='2073677']
o, so that is what happened, them palozi and kennidy kids didn't get to go the catholic pre-school. no wonder they turned out so bad.
[/quote]
Pretty sure I didn't even imply that, but that's good too.

Did you know that I went to a Catholic school for 12 years? Actually 13 if you count kindergarden. You know what I got out of it? By grade three they made sure I'd memorized all the main prayers (although we never learned the Nicene Creed(and I knew all these from Mass already anyway)). Then it was another nine years of "God loves everybodddddyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!" with a little bit of "respect people's dignity" thrown in for a month or two every year.

99% of what I know, I've learned by myself or on Phatmass. Now, is my school representative of Catholic schools as a whole? No. What it does mean though, is that the schools can't be relied upon either. We need parents, we need priests, we need parish communities, and we need schools. You can get by if some of the is missing, but it sure makes it harder.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

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[quote name='Slappo' date='15 March 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1268699985' post='2073736']
I would like more structured Catholic programs.

A lot of Catholic schools do not have Catholic programs. They have protestant programs because they are heretical. (I originally said most, I do not know that for sure so I edited). Basically... I would be just as picky about the Catholic school I allow my child to attend as I would the public school. If it was a good Catholic school that was in line with the Magisterium, then yes I would support that school. Unfortunately you can't assume that. To be consistent however, I would say the same about parish programs. If the program at my parish is heretical I would take the steps necessary to approach the pastor, the bishop, and then the curia if necessary. If the program remained heretical there is no way my child would be attending. Then when other children ask why, my child can say what errors the program has because of the solid formation he has already been receiving at home.


That's why I'd rather homeschool my children, or be the religion teacher at the Catholic school (or my wife for that matter since she'll have a BA in Theology as well).
[/quote]

Ha
home-school your own children. Isn’t that what i have been advocating allalong? But then that kind of goes againsteverything you have been saying. That isa tad bit hypocritical, son

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1268702099' post='2073752']
Ha
home-school your own children. Isn’t that what i have been advocating allalong? But then that kind of goes againsteverything you have been saying. That isa tad bit hypocritical, son
[/quote]
Are you listening to anything anybody is saying, or just typing?

[tinytherese]

How is anyone being hypocritical? Some of us are saying that ideally the are the PRIMARY educators of the children in the faith and the parish and Catholic schools are supposed to supplement what the parents teach, HOWEVER

catechesis today in the AVERAGE so called Catholic schools and parishes is REALLY BAD. Unfortunately, there are not that many exceptions. Knowing this, many PMer's are in favor of homeschooling considering how terrible catechesis is.

[add]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='15 March 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1268702846' post='2073758']
How is anyone being hypocritical? Some of us are saying that ideally the are the PRIMARY educators of the children in the faith and the parish and Catholic schools are supposed to supplement what the parents teach, HOWEVER

catechesis today in the AVERAGE so called Catholic schools and parishes is REALLY BAD. Unfortunately, there are not that many exceptions. Knowing this, many PMer's are in favor of homeschooling considering how terrible catechesis is.
[/quote]

i love catholic homeschooling,

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1268703247' post='2073761']
i love catholic homeschooling,
[/quote]
I do too, but I would like to see a reform of the existing parochial school system in the United States so that it once again operates as it should by assisting parents who cannot homeschool their children. This is not an either / or situation, but a both / and situation. The Church should have programs faithful to Catholic doctrine that can be utilized by families as a support to what parents are supposed to be doing in the home as the primary educators of their own children.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 March 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1268703517' post='2073762']
I do too, but I would like to see a reform of the existing parochial school system in the United States so that it once again operates as it should by assisting parents who cannot homeschool their children. This is not an either / or situation, but a both / and situation. The Church should have programs faithful to Catholic doctrine that can be utilized by families as a support to what parents are supposed to be doing in the home as the primary educators of their own children.
[/quote]

This is ideally, what the Sisters of Mary are doing...reforming the parochial school system, one Catholic school at a time...!

[Cherie]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='15 March 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1268703890' post='2073769']
This is ideally, what the Sisters of Mary are doing...reforming the parochial school system, one Catholic school at a time...!
[/quote]

Amen!

What we need in this country to reform the Catholic school system is MORE NUNS!!!

Bring on the vocations! And keep praying for them!!!

[dominicansoul]

oh, and I just want to make clear which Sisters of Mary i'm talking about, the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist...

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[quote name='CherieMadame' date='15 March 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1268703965' post='2073770']
Amen!

What we need in this country to reform the Catholic school system is MORE NUNS!!!

Bring on the vocations! And keep praying for them!!!


[/quote]

[vee]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='16 March 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1268703965' post='2073770']
Amen!

What we need in this country to reform the Catholic school system is MORE NUNS!!!

Bring on the vocations! And keep praying for them!!!


[/quote]

This.

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Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

[cappie]

In nearly every document of the Church that addresses education, the primacy of parents is emphasized as a foundational concept. However "primary" does not mean "only" educators. Certainly it is true that to recognize "parents as primary educators" does not prove that parents the "only educators." Those who claim that it does are simply in error. "Primary" here is a sequential and qualitative term, not a quantitative term. In other words, the parents of a child are the first educators to whom the child is exposed, and the most important educators. They are "primary" because it is they who must decide, prayerfully and reasonably, the proper means of education for their child under Canon 793 §1.

The Code of Canon Law directs pastors “… to take special care for the Catholic education of children and young adults;”. [can 528, 1] The way the parish community responds to the Gospel, in worship, education, and service will impact all members of the parish – especially the children. Parish communities should make certain that families know that they are welcome members of the parish and are welcome with their children at liturgy. Parishes should provide opportunities for children to participate, in special but appropriate ways, in liturgy and in parish service opportunities.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='apparently' date='15 March 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1268692520' post='2073672']
catholic schools are way better that public
[/quote]
In what sense(s)?