Jesus_lol Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 [quote name='Saint Therese' date='28 March 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1269785747' post='2081941'] I'm really tired of every thread turning into an apologetics for homosexuality. [/quote] how is it an apologetic to say they shouldnt be treated like croutons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='28 March 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1269797821' post='2082010'] how is it an apologetic to say they shouldnt be treated like croutons? [/quote] I reckon so. I reckon so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='28 March 2010 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1269797821' post='2082010'] how is it an apologetic to say they shouldnt be treated like croutons? [/quote] So because they aren't allowed a particular job they are now being treated like croutons? Man... all women in the Catholic Church are being treated like croutons because they can't be priests... And of course all men are being treated like croutons because they can't be consecrated virgins or nuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Slappo' date='29 March 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1269918257' post='2083090'] So because they aren't allowed a particular job they are now being treated like croutons? Man... all women in the Catholic Church are being treated like croutons because they can't be priests... And of course all men are being treated like croutons because they can't be consecrated virgins or nuns. [/quote] You made me visualize my husband in a habit. I'll have that stuck in my head for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Slappo' date='29 March 2010 - 08:04 PM' timestamp='1269918257' post='2083090'] So because they aren't allowed a particular job they are now being treated like croutons? Man... all women in the Catholic Church are being treated like croutons because they can't be priests... And of course all men are being treated like croutons because they can't be consecrated virgins or nuns. [/quote] you realize how far you can take your reasoning? there are good reasons for those examples. there is about as much reason to keep gays out of the military, as say black people. that is, none unless you are an idiot. "but what if some of the white soldiers dont like black people! unit cohesion goes way down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='29 March 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1269919885' post='2083110'] you realize how far you can take your reasoning? there are good reasons for those examples. there is about as much reason to keep gays out of the military, as say black people. that is, none unless you are an idiot. [/quote] This is a great debate tactic. Call your opponents idiots repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='notardillacid' date='29 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1269925768' post='2083128'] This is a great debate tactic. Call your opponents idiots repeatedly. [/quote] works well enough for me. there is no "morality" argument to keep gays out of the military that wouldnt also keep 95%(made up statistic representing a lot) of the straight men and women, going by the whole "fornication/lust/etc is a sin" so it comes down to that unit cohesion thing, which seems a more personal than real thing, most soldiers have no problems with it whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 What it comes down to is serving in the military isn't a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Slappo' date='29 March 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1269927970' post='2083135'] What it comes down to is serving in the military isn't a right. [/quote] then it comes down to discrimination. not all that is legal is good. i could choose not to let any minorities set foot on my property/business, if that was legal, that doesnt stop it from being a jerk move, and an immoral basis for denying people. there is no logical reason to bar gays from the military, not any that cant be ripped apart. the only thing left is just pure preference and "not letting those damned gays near me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidemunch88 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 You guys don't even know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I'm thinking about enlisting now that DADT is on it's way out. I have wanted to enlist in the past but hesitated because I knew I could get dishonorably discharged and that never looks good on the resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I think a homosexual should be able to join the army if he wants to and like a lot of posters here, including some devout catholics, can't see any logical reason to bar them. However, personally, I have no problem with the government not wanting to send me to their stupid war in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='pvtmiller' date='30 March 2010 - 03:55 AM' timestamp='1269935758' post='2083159'] You guys don't even know. [/quote] I would be really interested in your thoughts on this. [quote name='OraProMe' date='30 March 2010 - 08:10 AM' timestamp='1269951023' post='2083193'] I think a homosexual should be able to join the army if he wants to and like a lot of posters here, including some devout catholics, can't see any logical reason to bar them. However, personally, I have no problem with the government not wanting to send me to their stupid war in Iraq. [/quote] DADT doesn't say a homosexual can't join the military. As for everyone who doesn't think homosexuals in the military would be a problem i wonder how many of them have ever been in the military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Saint Therese' date='30 March 2010 - 06:59 AM' timestamp='1269957570' post='2083285'] DADT doesn't say a homosexual can't join the military. As for everyone who doesn't think homosexuals in the military would be a problem i wonder how many of them have ever been in the military? [/quote] it kind of does say they cant join. its like a bartender saying "we cant serve underage people. but since i want to sell drinks, if you dress up with fake ID's ill sell you some. if you are found out, ill throw you outside face first." the same question can be asked of the people who do think it would be a problem. i have no trouble with gays in my life, and i know i wouldnt if i was in the military. so im basing my decisions off that. as far as anecdotal evidence from serving members, officers and soldiers, the majority of it supports my case, that real soldiers dont have problems with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 [quote]Well first the army isn't a religious organization so why should it adopt one Church's moral code? Not to mention, as Hassan pointed out, there are plenty of soldiers who engage in things that are viewed as sexually "disgusting and degrading" by the Church. In fact given that the army is drawn from the American population you can bet that 90%+ of the soldiers engage in pre-marital sex, use of contraceptive, oral sex, masturbation, anal sex and the use of pornography. Should they be discharged too?[/quote] That's a non-argument. Yeah, people in the military do plenty of immoral things, but why lower the moral bar further? And the practical difference is that homosexuality creates problems/tensions within a group of fighting men that heterosexual naughtiness outside the unit does not. And it's not "once Church's moral code," but that of the One True Church, whose views on this matter until a couple decades ago were shared by pretty much all the major religions, homosexual behavior being contrary to natural law. The U.S. Armed Forces were not religious organizations, nor specifically Catholic, yet there has been a ban on homosexual behavior since 1778. It's not like this was an idea just now cooked up by right-wing Catholics. [quote name='OraProMe' date='27 March 2010 - 05:13 AM' timestamp='1269681216' post='2081210'] Believe it or not homosexuals wont fall for the first guy they see. Maybe if a soldier sexually propositions another soldier they should be discharged, but the same would go for straight soldiers around women. So I really don't think that the off chance of a gay soldier developing a crush on a straight soldier would "weaken" the unit. Actually in ancient Sparta homosexuality was encouraged among their army because they thought it would make the men fight harder for eachother so your point doesn't make sense even if all gay soldiers developed crushes on the straight soldiers (which just wouldn't happen to begin with). I think you're against homosexuals in the military because you're against homosexuality and want to force your own beliefs on others. I can't really see any valid reason to exclude homosexuals from the military. There are openly gay soldiers in the Australian Defence Force and that hasn't lead to some disaster. [/quote] We're not talking about a 9-5 office job, but men living in extreme close quarters for extended periods of time in extreme stress situations. Throwing unwanted homosexual behavior into the mix can make for an ugly situation. [url="http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue8892.html"]USMC Commandant General James Conway has defended the ban[/url] on homosexuality in the military, as have quite a few other current and [url="http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45911"]retired U.S. armed forces commanders[/url]. Call me prejudiced, but I think these men know what they're talking about a lot more than any of the phatmass bleeding hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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