HisChildForever Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1269984652' post='2083586'] no. i really don't get why anyone would. people do not give themselves haircuts. If you see someone with a nice hair cut, that is no indication of their skill at cutting hair. It is an indication of somebody else's skill at cutting hair. what is the problem then? the veil might scare people off? well, too bad. People used to be scared of black skin society just has to get over its phobias. [/quote] What a bizarre theory. The woman was not hired because her employers are afraid of her head scarf??, as opposed to not being hired because if one works at a beauty salon, one is selling their work through their professional appearance. A hair stylist must be able to display healthy hair in order to assure their customers that they know how to treat hair. Just as a manicurist must have healthy hands and nails.
Nihil Obstat Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='30 March 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1269985210' post='2083594'] What a bizarre theory. The woman was not hired because her employers are afraid of her head scarf??, as opposed to not being hired because if one works at a beauty salon, one is selling their work through their professional appearance. A hair stylist must be able to display healthy hair in order to assure their customers that they know how to treat hair. Just as a manicurist must have healthy hands and nails. [/quote] Although this doesn't quite hold true for old balding male barbers.
HisChildForever Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='30 March 2010 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1269985316' post='2083596'] Although this doesn't quite hold true for old balding male barbers. [/quote] Men focus more on hair maintenance, not hair style, in comparison to women.
cmaD2006 Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='29 March 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1269914807' post='2083060'] Next, they'll want to take off "Cum Laude" etc because it is in Latin! But, I agree. If a student makes a free decision to attend a college with Christian roots, then learn to live with those roots, even if you don't embrace them. The student had the choice to go to an entirely secular college. It's would be like going to Notre Dame and wanting to remove the Golden Dome. [/quote] Well, I went to a private secular school and my diploma is 100% IN LATIN (well, except my name which is in correct type -- including accent marks!).
God Conquers Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 They still have to take care of their head though. They don't have crazy straggly hairs all over the place. At least the ones still in business don't.
HisChildForever Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 I would like to add that if the salon requires women to display their hair, either uncover your head or do not apply. Clearly baseball caps are against dress code too, should a woman sue for "prejudice against baseball" too?
Socrates Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Employers have a right to set dress codes and grooming standards for their employees while on the job.
Lilllabettt Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='30 March 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1269985210' post='2083594'] What a bizarre theory. The woman was not hired because her employers are afraid of her head scarf??, as opposed to not being hired because if one works at a beauty salon, one is selling their work through their professional appearance. A hair stylist must be able to display healthy hair in order to assure their customers that they know how to treat hair. Just as a manicurist must have healthy hands and nails. [/quote] fyi, the people who cut your hair do NOT cut their own hair. Just so you know. If a person's appearance is stylish, neat and professional, I don't see what difference it makes about whether her hair is covered People do NOT cut their own hair. Do you know some food and beverage establishments demand their waitresses have a certain breast size? boob size shows a woman's waitressing skills about as much as a woman's haircut shows her hair-cutting skills Edited March 30, 2010 by Lilllabettt
Nihil Obstat Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1269985842' post='2083607'] fyi, the people who cut your hair do NOT cut their own hair. Just so you know. If a person's appearance is stylish, neat and professional, I don't see what difference it makes about whether her hair is covered People do NOT cut their own hair. Do you know some food and beverage establishments demand their waitresses have a certain breast size? boob size shows a woman's waitressing skills about as much as a woman's haircut shows her hair-cutting skills [/quote] Hair style = breast size?
Lilllabettt Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='30 March 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1269985579' post='2083602'] I would like to add that if the salon requires women to display their hair, either uncover your head or do not apply. Clearly baseball caps are against dress code too, should a woman sue for "prejudice against baseball" too? [/quote] some muslim women would be insulted by your equation of a casual sporting accessory with a sacramental religious article wearing a veil into church is nice wearing a baseball hat into church is rude
Apotheoun Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='30 March 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1269974196' post='2083459'] Since about grade nine now, teachers have in general been telling me to use CE and BCE........ thus far I've never complied. I don't plan on doing so. [/quote] Same here. I used A.D. and B.C. in all my papers at SFSU and never had a problem, even in the classes where the teacher had specified using C.E. and B.C.E.
God Conquers Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1269985842' post='2083607'] boob size shows a woman's waitressing skills about as much as a woman's haircut shows her hair-cutting skills [/quote] Is this true?
HisChildForever Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1269985842' post='2083607'] fyi, the people who cut your hair do NOT cut their own hair. Just so you know. If a person's appearance is stylish, neat and professional, I don't see what difference it makes about whether her hair is covered People do NOT cut their own hair. Do you know some food and beverage establishments demand their waitresses have a certain breast size? boob size shows a woman's waitressing skills about as much as a woman's haircut shows her hair-cutting skills [/quote] I go to the salon frequently, I know that stylists do not cut their own hair. They do TREAT their own hair, however, and if a stylist has very healthy and cared for hair, I am going to take her advice when she recommends certain products for me to use. How do I know what kind of hair a woman has when it is hidden beneath a baseball hat, scarf, handkerchief, or hijab? Your comparison to the food service industry and bust size is ridiculous and irrelevant.
HisChildForever Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1269985989' post='2083613'] some muslim women would be insulted by your equation of a casual sporting accessory with a sacramental religious article wearing a veil into church is nice wearing a baseball hat into church is rude [/quote] Except I am not equating the meaning or significance, just the simple fact that they both cover hair. Edited March 30, 2010 by HisChildForever
Lilllabettt Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='30 March 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1269985914' post='2083609'] Hair style = breast size? [/quote] I think its asanine, don't you when employers demand their female employees conform to (male centered) standards of appearance which do not impact their ability to do their jobs?
Lilllabettt Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='God Conquers' date='30 March 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1269986137' post='2083617'] Is this true? [/quote] um, yes. having large breasts does not get your dinner to the table any faster. having a great hair cut is no indication that you are great at cutting hair. Unless you are some kind of contortionist with a squishy spine and two sets of eyes enabling you to somehow reach around the back of your own head.
Nihil Obstat Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='30 March 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1269986245' post='2083621'] I think its asanine, don't you when employers demand their female employees conform to (male centered) standards of appearance which do not impact their ability to do their jobs? [/quote] I'm kind of having trouble following your (strange) prose. (Please cease?) kthx In any case, I think that your argument is fallacious. First of all, a woman has control over her hair style. A good stylist will be able to direct their own hairdresser as to what style they want, thus displaying their own taste to their customers. Breast size has absolutely nothing to do with that. Edited March 30, 2010 by Nihil Obstat
Apotheoun Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Employers often have dress codes . . . in my twenties I hated wearing a tie, but it was required. P.S. - When I worked at Nationwide Insurance and CSAA religious items were not allowed in your work area.
Nihil Obstat Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='30 March 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1269986591' post='2083630'] Employers often have dress codes . . . in [u]the[/u] twenties I hated wearing a tie, but it was required. P.S. - When I worked at Nationwide Insurance and CSAA religious items were not allowed in your work area. [/quote]
God Conquers Posted March 30, 2010 Posted March 30, 2010 Bottom line: This is a Service Industry. The rules which the business makes are ones which it know increase revenues by appealing to customers. For instance: A hair salon knows that if their employee's heads are covered, they are likely to get more walk-in customers than a salon where the fashionable hairstyles of the workers are displayed. The rule is there for a reason, and that reason is not religious discrimination. Abercrombie and Fitch is a clothing retail store. However, I can not get a job there. Because of my lack of experience? No. Because (SOME PEOPLE) say I'm not a model. And they only hire models. Because models sell clothes better. They are able to discriminate based on physical appearance. There are many restaurants, (Moxie's, Hooters) that have similar practices. It's not discrimination... it's business. Is there room for compromise with religious behavior? Of course! But it's really up to the owner.
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