Israeli Soldiers Kill Peace Activists

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='03 June 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1275600485' post='2123293']
they unlawfully boarded a ship sailing under a foreign flag against their will in international waters, i'd say self defense is fairly reasonable. unless you think pulling a gun on a home invader is wrong.
[/quote]
Interesting opinion.

By the way, I am not a "peace activist" so if someone enters my home without my permission, I will defend myself and my family.

That said, the peace activists in the video do not look peaceful; so perhaps they should not be called peace activists, but should be called militants instead.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Winchester]

Breaking a blockade is a military act. They were not acting peacefully and they did not use the typical means. It was intended by the organizers, if not the participants, to provoke exactly the reaction it got. If Gaza wants the blockade ended, they must reject Hamas.

[HisChildForever]

I am too tired to read this thread or add my two cents, but I will say that I heard this news story 20x because the only television channel I could understand was CNN.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='03 June 2010 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1275601502' post='2123311']
I am too tired to read this thread or add my two cents, but I will say that I heard this news story 20x because the only television channel I could understand was CNN.
[/quote]
Welcome back.

[HisChildForever]

Thanks, I am not functioning very well at the moment.

[SaintOfVirtue]

Not to mention the flotilla of "peace activists" had al'qaeda mercenaries with them.

[Hassan]

[QUOTE]If Gaza wants the blockade ended, they must reject Hamas.
[/quote]


That is interesting. How does Just War theory square with starving civilians until they vote for the right party? Assuming Hamas subjects itself to elections, something I doubt.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hassan' date='03 June 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1275602001' post='2123323']
That is interesting. How does Just War theory square with starving civilians until they vote for the right party? Assuming Hamas subjects itself to elections, something I doubt.
[/quote]
Oh, we're pretending the Palestinians are starving now. If they are, it's due to the typical militant muslim parade of manufactured tears.
http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='03 June 2010 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1275601502' post='2123311']
I am too tired to read this thread or add my two cents, but I will say that I heard this news story 20x because the only television channel I could understand was CNN.
[/quote]

welcome back!







i cant believe Obama (or someone else high up in US gov) suggested that Israel should lead the investigation into this matter. it always works so well when we get the police to investigate their own corruption, etc.

I have a feeling more of the USA would be out for blood if this was involving any other country than Israel. shades of the USS liberty again...

Edited June 3, 2010 by Jesus_lol

[Winchester]

The only reason to not use the usual methods of sending aid was to create a problem like this.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Winchester' date='03 June 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1275603909' post='2123343']
Oh, we're pretending the Palestinians are starving now. If they are, it's due to the typical militant muslim parade of manufactured tears.
http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/
[/quote]

The evidence used to support this is a one pageish brief from a Canadian based group whose purpose is to promote a positive image of Israel and the 'statistics' they site is not a detailed report of how they quantify their claims or any of the usual accounting methodology you'd expect to find in a statistics report. Instead, the they cite to support their position is an information page from the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I'm not saying that the lack of a methodology report invalidates what they say but I don't think that is an honest way for them to claim to be giving information that cut's through the 'spin'. Particularly since a lot of the things they say seem misleading. Maybe all Palestinians have a right to medical care in Israel. But any suggestion that every Palestinian who want's medical care in Israel has a practical ability to get to would be very incorrect and blaming Hamas does not square with the facts. Plenty of Palestinian women have their kids on the road after waiting for hours to be let through by the IDF guards.

B'Tselem adds a lot to the context

http://www.btselem.org/English/Gaza_Strip/20100531_The_Siege_on_Gaza.asp


'Starving' was too charged and emotional a word for me to use. A serious humanitarian crisis, however, would not be to far. The ethical issue is even further complicated by the issue of how capable residents in Gaza are of giving Hamas the boot. I don't know the answer to that.

[Winchester]

Will read.

[StMichael]

The Gaza Strip was created in 1949 after the Arab-Israeli war and the area came under an agreement. Egypt controlled the land mass now occupied by the terrorist group Hamas.

In 1979, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty, whereby Israel left the areas they had captured during the 6 day war in 1967. Israel was given the Gaza strip.

In 1994 an agreement was made that the Palestinian's would receive much of the strip except for the settlement blocs and military areas.

Israel controls the waterways of the Gaza Strip. Therefore any activity in and out is under their rule.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. That is without argument. Their target is the destruction of Israel. Israel has a right to ensure that weapons do not find their way into the hands of these terrorists and therefore stopping boats, under the guise of aid, is well within their right.

As for these floatilla's, here is a good video:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSAxAj2KIdU&feature=player_embedded[/media]

And some articles:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=162037

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-06/03/c_13330246.htm

It appears as though terrorists used the useful idiots to attempt to break open a blockade and ensure a black eye on Israel.

Love this from Al Jezzera:

"An Al Jazeera news report one day before the raid translated by Palestinian Media Watch documented men on the flotilla chanting, "[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammad will return!"

The chant is often used at rallies for Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Khaibar is the name of the last Jewish village defeated by Islam's prophet Muhammad in AD 628. The battle marked the end of the Jewish presence in Arabia."

Peace activists, oh for sure.

Edited June 4, 2010 by StMichael

[Jesus_lol]

hmmm, and [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2010/06/21_miles_off_the_coast_of_pale.html"]History Repeats Itself Yet Again.[/url]

[HisChildForever]

Just watched this video and thought it was interesting (and brave).

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjE_7uwA0I[/media]

Edited June 4, 2010 by HisChildForever

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 June 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1275669036' post='2123665']
Just watched this video and thought it was interesting (and brave).

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABjE_7uwA0I[/media]
[/quote]
Wow. That kid was brave. Heh. His parents came along to drag him away, though. It's a dangerous place, even with that hand full of burly cops standing between him and the radical Islamic crowd.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='04 June 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1275671484' post='2123688']
Wow. That kid was brave. Heh. His parents came along to drag him away, though. It's a dangerous place, even with that hand full of burly cops standing between him and the radical Islamic crowd.
[/quote]

I am confused as to why, at the end, the Muslim young man claims the incident is because of the Second World War with the Jews in Germany. I was unaware that every single Jewish person is of German descent. The shrieking woman also made me chuckle.

[Apotheoun]

The love present in the hearts of the pro-Hamas protesters is palpable.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 June 2010 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1275675434' post='2123736']
I am confused as to why, at the end, the Muslim young man claims the incident is because of the Second World War with the Jews in Germany. I was unaware that every single Jewish person is of German descent. The shrieking woman also made me chuckle.
[/quote]
A little education would probably break up those prejudiced crowds. Or maybe not. Some would probably stay out of loyalty to their prophet.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='04 June 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1275691259' post='2123827']
The love present in the hearts of the pro-Hamas protesters is palpable.
[/quote]
Hah.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='04 June 2010 - 03:31 AM' timestamp='1275636712' post='2123547']
hmmm, and [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2010/06/21_miles_off_the_coast_of_pale.html"]History Repeats Itself Yet Again.[/url]
[/quote]
So refugees seeking asylum are comparable to supporters of a terrorist organization.

Approving of one blockade does not mean one must approve of all blockades.