Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2010 Author Posted June 25, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1277506544' post='2134235']I couldn't in good conscience believe that the God of Calvinism was my Father either, or really any protestant explanations of God as they all fail in one way or another, but that for example. [/quote] This is an extremely good example. The God I worship would not da[u][/u]mn someone to Hell before he was even conceived. Which bring us to: [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 07:09 PM' timestamp='1277507358' post='2134241'] Since a Protestant is a Christian, I feel perfectly safe to say that yes, we both worship the True God. [/quote] The way I see it is that - assuming for a second, it is the same God - both we and the Muslims are looking at the same God. Our telescope of 2000 years of tradition and infallibility provides a clear and sharp view of Him, while their telescope whose lens has been broken with the teachings of a false prophet are now left with a distorted and confusing view, leading to misunderstandings about what He really looks like.
HisChildForever Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 Muslims cannot possibly worship the One True God. The god of Islam and the God of Christianity are completely different deities.
goldenchild17 Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='25 June 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1277509605' post='2134258'] This is an extremely good example. The God I worship would not da[u][/u]mn someone to Hell before he was even conceived. [/quote] One primary reason I mention them specifically in my example.
Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2010 Author Posted June 25, 2010 Which...is why it was an extremely good example.
goldenchild17 Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1277509661' post='2134260'] Muslims cannot possibly worship the One True God. The god of Islam and the God of Christianity are completely different deities. [/quote] You're entitled to your opinion, yet if there is not going to be any interaction with my references, then I suppose there's no point in continuing though. peace Edited June 25, 2010 by goldenchild17
HisChildForever Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='25 June 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1277509605' post='2134258'] The way I see it is that - assuming for a second, it is the same God - both we and the Muslims are looking at the same God. Our telescope of 2000 years of tradition and infallibility provides a clear and sharp view of Him, while their telescope whose lens has been broken with the teachings of a false prophet are now left with a distorted and confusing view, leading to misunderstandings about what He really looks like. [/quote] Muhammad claimed to be a prophet - that God spoke to him and gave him teachings to follow and believe. If Christians and Muslims worship the One True God, then why do the words of Allah clash with the words of Christ? Why would the One True God give false information to Muhammad?
Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2010 Author Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Mohammed was a false prophet.[quote] teachings of a false prophet [/quote] Edited June 25, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS
goldenchild17 Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1277509957' post='2134264'] Muhammad claimed to be a prophet - that God spoke to him and gave him teachings to follow and believe. If Christians and Muslims worship the One True God, then why do the words of Allah clash with the words of Christ? Why would the One True God give false information to Muhammad? [/quote] Same could be said of all the protestant religions, no? Every Christian faith claims they have the truth of God, yet they can't all be right. But we don't disagree that they worship the true God. Why? Edited June 25, 2010 by goldenchild17
HisChildForever Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1277510022' post='2134266'] Same could be said of all the protestant religions, no? Every Christian faith claims they have the truth of God, yet they can't all be right. But we don't disagree that they worship the true God. Why? [/quote] No. The Protestants split from the Catholics. The Protestants may jumble the teachings of the Church but they do not reject the One True God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Allah said to Muhammad: [quote]"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."[/quote] If Allah is The One True God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - then in essence God has denied Himself. Which is simply impossible.
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Again, [quote]"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son." (4:171)[/quote] Why would God the Father deny the Son Jesus Christ? Why would God the Father, the First Person of the Trinity, deny the Trinity and thus deny Himself?
goldenchild17 Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1277510213' post='2134268'] No. The Protestants split from the Catholics. The Protestants may jumble the teachings of the Church but they do not reject the One True God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[/quote] Belloc argues (and St. John Damascene agrees) that Islam is also a heresy that broke (albeit indirectly) from Catholic teaching, and that it is not inherently a brand-new from the ground up religion. If we're going based on the argument of heresy vs. alien religion, then there is a reasonable case to be made that Islam fits this as well, however loosely. [quote]Allah said to Muhammad: If Allah is The One True God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - then in essence God has denied Himself. Which is simply impossible. [/quote] I see your point, however as far as I'm concerned the protestant reformers have said equally (and worse) things about God. This really doesn't make a difference to me. Edited June 26, 2010 by goldenchild17
Vincent Vega Posted June 26, 2010 Author Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1277510213' post='2134268'] Allah said to Muhammad: If Allah is The One True God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - then in essence God has denied Himself. Which is simply impossible. [/quote] So you believe that some God actually spoke to Mohammed? I.e., there is more than one God?
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Protestants do worship the One True God even if they interpret the Scriptures to their own liking; they are Christians and the Church teaches that they have partial Truth. Muslims do not worship the One True God, directly or indirectly, for their god Allah denies Three Persons in One God and denies the Savior Jesus Christ. To be honest, it baffles me that Protestantism and Islam are being compared in this thread.
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='25 June 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1277510917' post='2134275'] So you believe that some God actually spoke to Mohammed? I.e., there is more than one God? [/quote] Apologies if this sounds harsh, but did you read my post? The debate right now is whether or not Muslims worship the One True God. I took a step back and essentially said: Okay, let's pretend that Allah [i]is[/i] the same God we worship. If that were the case, then why would Allah (One True God) deny the Holy Trinity and Jesus Christ as both God and man? Moreover, if Allah was the One True God, i.e. The Trinity, why would He appear to Muhammad? Christ already brought the Truth to the world. My point is that the god Allah is NOT our God. He is either the creation of Muhammad or the Devil. I don't care if I get flamed for saying that either.
goldenchild17 Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1277510947' post='2134276'] Protestants do worship the One True God even if they interpret the Scriptures to their own liking; they are Christians and the Church teaches that they have partial Truth. Muslims do not worship the One True God, directly or indirectly, for their god Allah denies Three Persons in One God and denies the Savior Jesus Christ. To be honest, it baffles me that Protestantism and Islam are being compared in this thread. [/quote] Ok fine popes and theologians say that Islam worships the One True God, even if they twist and pervert the truth of the Church. Granted, they are not Christians, however the Church (likely non-infallibly) recognizes this partial truth in the Islam faith. It baffles me that people would disregard out of hand (infallible or not) the opinions of such great minds of our Church. (see, I can do it too ) lol, but honestly I don't think this is going to go anywhere good. So I'll just say that I understand what you're saying, and respectfully disagree.
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1277511394' post='2134281'] Ok fine popes and theologians say that Islam worships the One True God, even if they twist and pervert the truth of the Church. Granted, they are not Christians, however the Church (likely non-infallibly) recognizes this partial truth in the Islam faith. It baffles me that people would disregard out of hand (infallible or not) the opinions of such great minds of our Church. (see, I can do it too ) lol, but honestly I don't think this is going to go anywhere good. So I'll just say that I understand what you're saying, and respectfully disagree. [/quote] The god of Islam is absolutely nothing like my God and Savior Jesus Christ. To say that Muslims worship the same One True God is to say that Allah is the One True God, which is simply untrue and dare I add appalling.
goldenchild17 Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1277511526' post='2134282'] The god of Islam is absolutely nothing like my God and Savior Jesus Christ. To say that Muslims worship the same One True God is to say that Allah is the One True God, which is simply untrue and dare I add appalling. [/quote] Then count me on the appalling side of Pope Gregory VII, Francisco Suarez, Catechism of Pope Pius X, St. John Damascene, and Hilaire Belloc. peace
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='25 June 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1277511752' post='2134285'] Deep breaths Erin. [/quote] I reject Allah completely.
HisChildForever Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 The god of Islam denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. The Scriptures speak out quite plainly about those who deny Christ. [b]Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also. - 1 John 2:22-23[/b]
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