Eastern Christian Tag

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281982271' post='2158282']
When one finds an icon that seems to break with tradition, like the one Rexi posted, would it be for a specific theological reason, or just because the iconographer wasn't very good?
[/quote]

Seeing as both of the icons I posted above are important historical examples of iconography, I doubt that the iconographers were not good. This is especially so in the case of the latter icon, a mosaic in Hagia Sophia, since the some of the best iconographers in the Byzantine Empire probably would have been commissioned to create the work.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281982271' post='2158282']
When one finds an icon that seems to break with tradition, like the one Rexi posted, would it be for a specific theological reason, or just because the iconographer wasn't very good?
[/quote]
The icon Rexi posted is traditional, because many colors can be used when depicting the Theotokos in an icon. That said, when red and blue are used in an icon of the Theotokos, the blue layer of clothing should be on the inside, and the red on the outside.

[Nihil Obstat]

Ok, I understand.

[Resurrexi]

Our Lady of Perpetual Help, a Medieval Byzantine icon:

[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ysbqAK-74JE/RoMi1W63bKI/AAAAAAAAAZs/i0Imc3471iQ/s400/300px-Our_Mother_of_Perpetual_Help.jpg[/img]

[Apotheoun]

Below is an image of the Theotokos as found on the iconostasis at St. George the Victorious (Edmonton, Canada), a Church Temple commissioned and built specifically to highlight the canonical iconographic tradition of the East.

[img]http://www.edmontoneparchy.com/images/icons/St.%20George%20Parish/Ic%203.JPG[/img]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281981227' post='2158259']
Icons of Christ will show him with Blue outer clothing and red inner clothing.
[/quote]

Again, not always.

Pantocrator of Sinai:
[img]http://www.americanchurch.org/Christ_Pantacrator.gif[/img]

Pantocrator at Hagia Sophia
[img]http://www.stmarymagdalenechurch.org/uploads/icons/Christ1.hagia-sophia.deisis.2.jpg[/img]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281982673' post='2158295']
Our Lady of Perpetual Help, a Medieval Byzantine icon:

[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ysbqAK-74JE/RoMi1W63bKI/AAAAAAAAAZs/i0Imc3471iQ/s400/300px-Our_Mother_of_Perpetual_Help.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Rexi,

As I said in an earlier post, I am sure you can find many images that are not traditional in every detail of their depiction of the Theotokos, but the canonical iconographic tradition remains the norm.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281982923' post='2158303']
Again, not always.

Pantocrator of Sinai:
[img]http://www.americanchurch.org/Christ_Pantacrator.gif[/img]

Pantocrator at Hagia Sophia
[img]http://www.stmarymagdalenechurch.org/uploads/icons/Christ1.hagia-sophia.deisis.2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I'm just posting from the article. You don't need to convince me.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
We had a hideous statue of Mary in our church. She was wearing bright orange, burgandy, mauve, and brown. Oh, and someone gave her lipstick and nail polish. My brother had to fix it....

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281982924' post='2158304']
Rexi,

As I said in an earlier post, I am sure you can find many images that are not traditional in every detail of their depiction of the Theotokos, but the canonical iconographic tradition remains the norm.
[/quote]

I have no compelling reason to think that the red outer garments and blue inner garments depiction is traditional, especially since most of the more ancient icons that I have seen to not follow that color scheme.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281982923' post='2158303']
Again, not always.

Pantocrator of Sinai:
[img]http://www.americanchurch.org/Christ_Pantacrator.gif[/img]

Pantocrator at Hagia Sophia
[img]http://www.stmarymagdalenechurch.org/uploads/icons/Christ1.hagia-sophia.deisis.2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I like that you chose icons that do not contain the two colors that Nihil specified.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281983029' post='2158309']
I have no compelling reason to think that the red outer garments and blue inner garments depiction is traditional, especially since most of the more ancient icons that I have seen to not follow that color scheme.
[/quote]
Showing icons where red and blue are absent does not prove your case.

I doubt you are even familiar with the canonical tradition of the East as it concerns icons.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281983127' post='2158313']
Showing icons where red and blue are absent does not prove your case.

I doubt you are even familiar with the canonical tradition of the East as it concerns icons.
[/quote]

You can talk all you want about the "canonical tradition of the East" but you have shown me little evidence that it is what you say it is.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' timestamp='1281983201' post='2158315']
You can talk all you want about the "canonical tradition of the East" but you have shown me little evidence that it is what you say it is.
[/quote]
Many of the canons are available in English translation and are available through SVS Press.

P.S. - I have no interest in convincing you of anything.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281983308' post='2158316']
Many of the canons are available in English translation and are available through SVS Press.
[/quote]

Telling me I can go read the canons does not provide evidence to back up your assertion. Please quote and reference the relevant canons.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281982462' post='2158288'] [/quote]
i know, i'm funny, thanks!

[quote name='Tridenteen' timestamp='1281982992' post='2158306']JMJ
We had a hideous statue of Mary in our church. She was wearing bright orange, burgandy, mauve, and brown. Oh, and someone gave her lipstick and nail polish. My brother had to fix it....[/quote]
why, oh why?!

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281983127' post='2158313']I doubt you are even familiar with the canonical tradition of the East as it concerns icons.[/quote]
i know i'm not. my edjoomacashun is sadly lacking in this area.

[quote name='Apotheoun' timestamp='1281983308' post='2158316']P.S. - I have no interest in convincing you of anything.[/quote]

[Lil Red]

so,

about that tag?

[Nihil Obstat]

Is anyone allowed more than one tag? Or is there a hierarchy of tags?
I'm just wondering because I assume that all the regulators are also C.M., but they don't get a C.M. flag underneath their Regulator one.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1281983708' post='2158327']
Is anyone allowed more than one tag? Or is there a hierarchy of tags?
I'm just wondering because I assume that all the regulators are also C.M., but they don't get a C.M. flag underneath their Regulator one.
[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

Rexi,

I really have no interest in convincing you of anything. I will say this, I am reconsidering my decision not to post in the Dormition thread, because I know how my rejection of the Western theory of the Immaculate Conception would annoy you.

God grant you many joyful years,
Todd