Black Christ

[MarieLynn]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1285210875' post='2175408']
I don't understand why people are getting so upset about Christ being portrayed as black.

[img]http://sathyasaibaba.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/second-coming-jesus-christ-parousia-second-advent.jpg[/img]

Looks pretty white to me, and yet no one complains.

[img]http://www.marys-touch.com/history/infant.JPG[/img]

Again, lily white.

[img]http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/king.jpg[/img]

Again, white, and also dressed like an earthly king (yes, I know that Christ is the King of Creation, but I doubt God wears an expensive, earthly crown made of earthly precious metals...) The Bible makes it clear that Christ's family was at best lower middle class, and poverty and humility were part of His identity just as much as His Jewish heritage was--and yet no one complains about pictures like this...

Seriously guys, if you're going to complain, at least complain consistently. That is all.
[/quote]


Does it really matter what colour Christ is seen as being? We have a Maori Jesus portrayed by the indigenous people of New Zealand with distinctly Polynesian features and colour, and nobody seems too worried. Christ is in each one of us and is whatever we want Him to be. Do you think He cares whether he is seen as Caucasian or Jewish? Get a grip.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='MarieLynn' timestamp='1285216929' post='2175423']
Does it really matter what colour Christ is seen as being? We have a Maori Jesus portrayed by the indigenous people of New Zealand with distinctly Polynesian features and colour, and nobody seems too worried. Christ is in each one of us and is whatever we want Him to be. Do you think He cares whether he is seen as Caucasian or Jewish? Get a grip.
[/quote]

Umm. I was agreeing with you

Edited September 23, 2010 by rizz_loves_jesus

[Micah]

^^ The portrayal doesn't matter. Like if they just worshipped Christ and the depictions in their Churches were black, w.e. It's just art. But when they worship they call him the black christ. Our Saviour isn't the black Christ. He's Christ, Khristos, that Jewish guy.. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/deadhorse.gif[/img][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/deadhorse.gif[/img][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/deadhorse.gif[/img]

[Winchester]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1284917101' post='2174594']
Dude w.e, racist accusations are just a trump card. Jesus was Jewish; its wrong to portray him as anything else. Period.
[/quote]
It's also wrong to not capitalize "Him."

[Winchester]

Micah is arguing that calling Him "Black Jesus" is wrong. It's not the artistic depiction, but the title, as it were.

[teresitacarmel]

Jesus is supposed to be Jewish, but I think the Virgin Mary and Christ are depicted as having different racial backgrounds, as a way of relating to different people...? But I do prefer it if He looks more Middle Eastern.

[Micah]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1285248031' post='2175447']
Micah is arguing that calling Him "Black Jesus" is wrong. It's not the artistic depiction, but the title, as it were.
[/quote]

Ya, initially I was arguing against artwork depicting him as non-jewish, but I was thinking about it this morning, and I think its more important just to recognize his heritage. Otherwise Id be being hypocritical, cause I've always loved the Black Madonna of Poland.

And Im normally pretty good about capitalizing Hims and Hes. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile2.gif[/img]

[Seven77]

What does a Jew of 1st Century Palestine look like? I don't think he had white skin.

Does "black Jesus" deny Jesus was a Jew? How so?

For the record, I don't think it matters all that much… yet is very helpful to discuss.

[Micah]

[quote name='Seven77' timestamp='1285291594' post='2175630']
What does a Jew of 1st Century Palestine look like? I don't think he had white skin.

Does "black Jesus" deny Jesus was a Jew? How so?

For the record, I don't think it matters all that much… yet is very helpful to discuss.
[/quote]

To be honest I think you probably know that eastern Mediterranean peoples typically have dark hair and a light brown complexion.. O__o

Anyways, yes it does deny Jesus was a Jew. So do the silly blue eyed, blonde haired Jesus' i've seen in this thread lol. The Jews were Hebrew, and I think it's important to recognize that Christianity is the branch grafted onto the root of Judaism. They screwed up, now it's the time of the Gentiles. Our savior was made manifest in the race of Israel though.. It's not important for salvation, but its important if you want to understand Christianity.

[LouisvilleFan]

Was anyone really that upset?

[desertwoman]

You live, you learn, you buy Luvs.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1285247788' post='2175444']
It's also wrong to not capitalize "Him."
[/quote]


I have wondered about this and would really like a definitive answer. Sometimes I see God referred to as him or he or his, etc... but I always like to capitalize Him or He or His....

which is correct? Not which is preferred, but is there a really 'right' way to do it? Sources??

And does this carry on to words like You or Me if we are speaking directly to Him or He is speaking to us (in writing that is). I ask this for literary reasons, not theological ones. Thanks.

[Lilllabettt]

the capitalization of "Him" was the scholarly practice for many years. Now it is not so. There is nothing unorthodox or wrong about it per se. It is an editing decision. Many of the Pope's books refer to Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit as "him." Although it is not the academic style anymore, it is still a lovely tradition to keep in personal writing.

(I have also found that it clarifies that I'm referring to God in a sentence where more than one "he" is involved. e.g., "John and God talked, and he said he was angry with Him." As opposed to: "John and God met, and he said he was angry with him" .. which leaves you wondering who is mad at whom )

Edited September 24, 2010 by Lilllabettt

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1285343213' post='2175685']
the capitalization of "Him" was the scholarly practice for many years. Now it is not so. There is nothing unorthodox or wrong about it per se. It is an editing decision. Many of the Pope's books refer to Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit as "him." Although it is not the academic style anymore, it is still a lovely tradition to keep in personal writing.

(I have also found that it clarifies that I'm referring to God in a sentence where more than one "he" is involved. e.g., "John and God talked, and he said he was angry with Him." As opposed to: "John and God met, and he said he was angry with him" .. which leaves you wondering who is mad at whom )
[/quote]


Thank you so much Lillabettt - that is very helpful...

and now I'm going to tease you a little because you obviously know your writing!

which leaves you wondering who is mad at [b][u]whom[/u][/b]

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1285373340' post='2175783']
Thank you so much Lillabettt - that is very helpful...

and now I'm going to tease you a little because you obviously know your writing!

which leaves you wondering who is mad at [b][u]whom[/u][/b]



[/quote]


Pies on your face. I said whom.

What. Whom isn't right? I'm pretty sure it is.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1284917101' post='2174594']
Dude w.e, racist accusations are just a trump card. Jesus was Jewish; its wrong to portray him as anything else. Period.
[/quote]
This thread is entirely absurd and a waste of everyone's time.

People have always portrayed Jesus Christ as "one of their own" - whether white, black, Asian, or whatever. Most Christian artists through history would not have known what a 1st century Palestinian Jew would look like anyway. Europeans would portray Him as European, Africans as African, etc. (And much of our traditional iconography of Christ is based on the image of the Shroud of Turin, which I think may very well be authentic based on my readings.)

As long as it's not being deliberately used to promote some racist ideology, I have no problem with Jesus Christ being portrayed as any race, whether it's a blue-eyed Anglo-Saxon-looking Jesus, or an African-featured Black Jesus. Neither would likely be historically accurate, but as long as the intent is reverent, there is nothing wrong with Jesus being portrayed as any particular race. The variety of images of Christ (and Our Lady) emphasize how Christ came to save ALL men of all races.
Besides, until we get to heaven, it's doubtful any of us knows exactly what Jesus looked like on earth anyways.

The devotion being discussed in the video is of a particular black-colored image of Christ. There's nothing wrong with that in itself.

Insisting that all images of Christ must look "Jewish" is ridiculous anyways. Must we always portray Him with a big nose, or other stereotypically "Jew" features?


(Btw, Jesus would have been "white" or "Caucasian" rather than "black" or "African," but would have been a swarthy Middle-Easterner, rather than a northern-European type.)

[Micah]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1285375237' post='2175800']
This thread is entirely absurd and a waste of everyone's time.

People have always portrayed Jesus Christ as "one of their own" - whether white, black, Asian, or whatever. Most Christian artists through history would not have known what a 1st century Palestinian Jew would look like anyway. Europeans would portray Him as European, Africans as African, etc. (And much of our traditional iconography of Christ is based on the image of the Shroud of Turin, which I think may very well be authentic based on my readings.)

As long as it's not being deliberately used to promote some racist ideology, I have no problem with Jesus Christ being portrayed as any race, whether it's a blue-eyed Anglo-Saxon-looking Jesus, or an African-featured Black Jesus. Neither would likely be historically accurate, but as long as the intent is reverent, there is nothing wrong with Jesus being portrayed as any particular race. The variety of images of Christ (and Our Lady) emphasize how Christ came to save ALL men of all races.
Besides, until we get to heaven, it's doubtful any of us knows exactly what Jesus looked like on earth anyways.

The devotion being discussed in the video is of a particular black-colored image of Christ. There's nothing wrong with that in itself.

Insisting that all images of Christ must look "Jewish" is ridiculous anyways. Must we always portray Him with a big nose, or other stereotypically "Jew" features?


(Btw, Jesus would have been "white" or "Caucasian" rather than "black" or "African," but would have been a swarthy Middle-Easterner, rather than a northern-European type.)
[/quote]

lol yes well thats where we disagree isn't it. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.gif[/img]