Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295743961' post='2203215'] That's why I ensure all demons I fight are sent to Hell, and I imprison them. [/quote] They know Jesus, and they know Paul, but who are you? ~Sternhauser
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295744178' post='2203216'] They know Jesus, and they know Paul, but who are you? ~Sternhauser [/quote] I'm the one who vexes them every single day. Oh, yes, they know me by name too - and they know the one I chose to serve, Jesus Christ!
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295743961' post='2203215'] Well, that must mean Satan is Omnipotent and Omniscient and Omnipresent - according to your words. Guess what - I would check yourself on that - because that is blasphemy. Satan is not equal to God, and Satan does have a limit and is limited because he is not God.[/quote] That is not at all what he said. [quote]Possession isn't what you guys actually think it is. Demonic possession isn't forcing the person to do things they can't stop themselves from doing, but when someone starts listening to a spirit other than God. That stuff makes great Hollywood movies - and I can certainly understand why most of you might think that is what demonic possession is because you get bombarded by that message way too much. Demon's can't make a man do anything the man doesn't want to do. No matter what spirit inhabits a person, the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet! [/quote] Demons cannot make a man do anything, that is absolutely correct. But a demon can do things through the person's body, and the human can be unable to stop it. In the actions and words of the demon, the person does not necessarily sin. If you don't believe that, take it up with Fr. Gabriele Amorth and Fr. Malachi Martin. ~Sternhauser Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295744289' post='2203217'] I'm the one who vexes them every single day. Oh, yes, they know me by name too - and they know the one I chose to serve, Jesus Christ! [/quote] And you bind them? How? ~Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295743961' post='2203215'] Well, that must mean Satan is Omnipotent and Omniscient and Omnipresent - according to your words. Guess what - I would check yourself on that - because that is blasphemy. Satan is not equal to God, and Satan does have a limit and is limited because he is not God. [/quote] This is a vile accusation and I will not stand for it.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1295744924' post='2203223'] This is a vile accusation and I will not stand for it. [/quote] Take that up with God if you didn't like what I said. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295744529' post='2203218'] That is not at all what he said. Demons cannot make a man do anything, that is absolutely correct. But a demon can do things through the person's body, and the human can be unable to stop it. In the actions and words of the demon, the person does not necessarily sin. If you don't believe that, take it up with Fr. Gabriele Amorth and Fr. Malachi Martin. ~Sternhauser [/quote] I'd rather take up what demons can make men do with God and not a couple of religious people who disagree with him. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295744733' post='2203222'] And you bind them? How? ~Sternhauser [/quote] As I have said many, many, many times - I will allow you to decide by what authority I interpret scripture, and cast devils out. Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295745032' post='2203224'] Take that up with God if you didn't like what I said. [/quote] Take responsibility for yourself and speak no more lies.
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295745032' post='2203224'] I'd rather take up what demons can make men do with God and not a couple of religious people who disagree with him. [/quote] If I grab your arm and shake it around, did I just "make [i]you" [/i]shake your arm around, even though I physically overpowered you, yet did not overpower your will itself? If you knew about exorcisms, you'd know about Fr. Amorth and Fr. Martin. ~Sternhauser Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 As the Book of Job teaches in the clearest of fashions, God allows Satan to have power over us, and Satan jumps gleefully at the opportunity to seek the ruin of our souls. He allows it for our own good, and as Job shows us, God will never allow more trials than we can handle. Satan is given power over our bodies, but never our souls.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295745256' post='2203226'] If I grab your arm and shake it around, did I just "make [i]you" [/i]shake your arm around, even though I physically overpowered you, yet did not overpower your will itself? If you knew about exorcisms, you'd know about Fr. Amorth and Fr. Martin. ~Sternhauser [/quote] That can't happen. It makes great Hollywood movies, but it isn't based on reality one bit. And no, I don't know about Fr. Amorth or Ft. Martin, but I do know about Jesus Christ! You can't be serious - because all anybody would need to do is come at someone with a knife, pretend to be trying to fight stabbing the person, and then stab them repeatedly and murder them and then say, I couldn't stop myself, I didn't want to do it, but something was forcing me to stab that person - and you will believe them that they were possessed by the devil and therefore not guilty of murder! Yeah - that's confusion buddy, and you are definitely confused on this subject! [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1295745083' post='2203225'] Take responsibility for yourself and speak no more lies. [/quote] I vehemently disagree with your theology in regards to how much power Satan actually has. I am taking responsibility by saying you are completely and utterly wrong, and your ideas actually glorify Satan as being equal to God - which he is not! You are blaspheming God by saying Satan is essentially limitless! Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295745496' post='2203229'] That can't happen. It makes great Hollywood movies, but it isn't based on reality one bit.[/quote] Do you have any documentation to back up your claim? First hand experience? Luke 9:42: "As the boy came forward,[b] the demon knocked him to the ground and threw him into a violent convulsion[/b]. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit and healed the boy. Then he gave him back to his father." Luke 4:35 [b][size="2"][b]"[/b][/size][/b][b][size="2"][b]And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And [i]when the devil had thrown him in the midst,[/i] he came out of him, and hurt him not."[/b][/size][/b] Luke 8:29 "Many times[b] it had seized him,[/b] and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and [b]had been driven by the demon[/b] into solitary places." Mark 9:20 "So they brought him. When[b] the spirit[/b] saw Jesus,[b] it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion.[/b] He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth." [quote]And no, I don't know about Fr. Amorth or Ft. Martin, but I do know about Jesus Christ![/quote] Then respect their experience. They were priests of God and exorcists. Amorth still is. Between the two of them, they've probably exorcised thousands of possession victims. Have you exorcised anyone? ~Sternhauser Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 "[1] Therefore, seeing we have this ministration, according as we have obtained mercy, we faint not; [2] But we renounce the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor adulterating the word of God; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience, in the sight of God. [3] And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them. [5] For we preach not ourselves, but Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants through Jesus." Guess who the "god of this world" is. St. Paul said it, not me.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295745635' post='2203231'] Do you have any documentation to back up your claim? First hand experience? Luke 9:42: "As the boy came forward,[b] the demon knocked him to the ground and threw him into a violent convulsion[/b]. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit and healed the boy. Then he gave him back to his father." Luke 4:35 [b][size="2"][b]"[/b][/size][/b][b][size="2"][b]And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And [i]when the devil had thrown him in the midst,[/i] he came out of him, and hurt him not."[/b][/size][/b][/quote] Demons can attack, and I've almost suffered through two minor strokes because of spiritual attacks from dozens, maybe even hundreds of demons attacking all at once. Still, I had full command of my faculties and I didn't all of a sudden go on a sinning spree because of the demons. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295745635' post='2203231'] Then respect their experience. They were priests of God and exorcists. Amorth still is. Between the two of them, they've probably exorcised thousands of possession victims. Have you exorcised anyone? ~Sternhauser [/quote] Great, as I said - two can utterly destroy 10,000! Good for them!
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1295745994' post='2203232'] "[1] Therefore, seeing we have this ministration, according as we have obtained mercy, we faint not; [2] But we renounce the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor adulterating the word of God; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience, in the sight of God. [3] And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them. [5] For we preach not ourselves, but Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants through Jesus." Guess who the "god of this world" is. St. Paul said it, not me. [/quote] Can I have two guesses? Scripture is awesome. Satan can't have complete control of a human being unless the human being allows him. And he isn't limitless. Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295746262' post='2203235'] Can I have two guesses? Scripture is awesome. Satan can't have complete control of a human being unless the human being allows him. [/quote] You continue to refuse to distinguish between power over the soul and power over the body. Satan can be given (by God) power over the body. He necessarily cannot have power over the soul unless it is given to him by choice by us.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1295746349' post='2203236'] You continue to refuse to distinguish between power over the soul and power over the body. Satan can be given (by God) power over the body. He necessarily cannot have power over the soul unless it is given to him by choice by us. [/quote] Satan can only influence a person through their spirit, not through their body - sorry! You guys are giving people a right to sin by saying, I didn't want to do it, but Satan made me do it! It makes a great hollywood movie, but it isn't true! Edited January 23, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295746097' post='2203233'] Demons can attack, and I've almost suffered through two minor strokes because of spiritual attacks from dozens, maybe even hundreds of demons attacking all at once. Still, I had full command of my faculties and I didn't all of a sudden go on a sinning spree because of the demons.[/quote] [i]Who here has said that the Demons can force a man to do something against his will? [/i]That is not the question here! You said that demons cannot physcially move anyone's body against his will. [i]Humans[/i] can, but demons, vastly more powerful, cannot? [quote]Great, as I said - two can utterly destroy 10,000! Good for them![/quote] Yet you deny their wisdom and say that demons cannot act through a human's body. And simultaneously, you deny scripture. ~Sternhauser Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295746445' post='2203237'] Satan can only influence a person through their spirit, not through their body - sorry! You guys are giving people a right to sin by saying, I didn't want to do it, but Satan made me do it! It makes a great hollywood movie, but it isn't true! [/quote] [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295746504' post='2203239'] [i]Who here has said that the Demons can force a man to do something against his will? [/i]That is not the question here! You said that demons cannot move anyone against their will. Humans can, but demons, vastly more powerful, cannot? Yet you deny their wisdom and say that demons cannot act through a human's body. And simultaneously, you deny scripture. ~Sternhauser [/quote] The most intelligent Sternhauser says it as well as I could.
Sternhauser Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295746445' post='2203237'] Satan can only influence a person through their spirit, not through their body - sorry! You guys are giving people a right to sin by saying, I didn't want to do it, but Satan made me do it! It makes a great hollywood movie, but it isn't true! [/quote] You do not understand the differences among a demon's act, a human act, and an act of man. That is your fault, not ours. No one is saying that demons can make a human [i]will[/i] or [i]choose[/i] anything. But if a [i]human[/i] can physically move someone's body contrary to his will, then certainly a demon can. If another human grasps your arm, overpowers you, and punches someone else with your hand, have you "sinned?" Has the other person "made" [i]you[/i] do [i]anything?[/i] Sin is in the will, not in physical behaviors beyond one's control. If one loses control of one's bladder in church, one has not sinned. If one deliberately urinates in church, he has sinned. Do you not see the difference? Your statements have zero scriptural, theological or demonological basis. ~Sternhauser Edited January 23, 2011 by Sternhauser
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 This is what happens when you place your own 'authority' over the true authority of the Church.
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