abrideofChrist Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) I hope the screen is not blank. You should see links to the chapters. Scroll down to chapter 14 entitled: Discernment of Spirits and click on the link. Here's the direct link just in case: http://www.domcentral.org/study/aumann/st/st14.htm [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296781926' post='2208435'] I took a look at this: [url="http://www.domcentral.org/study/aumann/st/default.htm"]http://www.domcentra.../st/default.htm[/url] but I still don't see anything. [/quote] Edited February 4, 2011 by abrideofChrist
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296773357' post='2208351'] satan has whatever power God allows him to have. satan could not possess anyone if God did not allow Him to. Like I said, you assume that God always answers our prayers the way we want Him to. What if His Will is for us to undergo these trials?[/quote] Where I believe Cancer can be a trial God puts us through to test how much we love him, seeing if we will totally trust him and never question or curse him - I don't believe demonic possession is such a trial. In fact, I am pretty certain, with as much authority I have through the holy spirit, that every single prayer we pray in regards to fight demonic possession is the prayers of the saints in the vials that the angels will pour out on the world during the tribulation period (Read the book of revelations if you are interested - and you will know what I am talking about). It is not only one of our rights to take power over Satan in this time, but I believe it is our duty as soldiers of God - preparing the way of the Lord. As I said - people who are battling Satan in this time have a proud heritage, as we are the front line soldiers who are sending out our prayers into the vials that God will punish the Satanic world with! [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296773357' post='2208351'] Exactly. And God will only do so if He sees it best for us.[/quote] And it is currently God's will to destroy the Satanic Kingdom before he sends his son back - It is said numerous times in scripture. So it is God's will to respond to that prayer request if the person is earnest in their prayers. [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296773357' post='2208351'] As I said, I was only following your logic. When one assumes that nothing can happen to people which they do not will, and that prayer can deliver them always, it's only logical to also say that if we aren't delivered from something, it is our fault that we aren't. As said I, you assume too much. You assume that God always answers our prayer in the way we wish; that He cannot will a trial to teach us something.[/quote] Spiritual warfare - which this thread is really all about, doesn't make much sense, because the only power Satan has is lies. [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296773357' post='2208351'] The evidence is to the contrary. abrideofchrist gave a very good link. Maybe you should look at it.[/quote] Not that I would say good men and women would lie about something in a book, but I know Satan always lies, and anything that is surmised in that book could 100 per cent be publishing lies about Satan as he convinces people he can do something he can not. [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296773357' post='2208351'] I could point out that "entering into Judas" doesn't necessarily mean a possession in the sense we are speaking of here (violent and typically unwilled, at least after the possession occurs), and could just mean a temptation (satan's influence--temptation--entered Judas' life/mind). But, there are some things in life I have found useless. One is pouring water into the ocean. The other is debating Bible quotes with Sola Scriptura people. [/quote] The only difference between your ideas and mine is that I believe possession is just influence - it has never been anything but that - because the only thing Satan can do is lie. Oh, he can convince a person he has taken over and they can't do anything - just like a hypnotist can convince a person they are a bird and that person starts flapping their arms like a bird and chirping, but really - all Satan's power really is a suggestion - it isn't the truth.
Mark of the Cross Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296778267' post='2208383'] The movie -- since I got serious about my faith, I stay away from horror, scifi, Potter, and even religious oriented horror. It's no good for your soul. [/quote] Me too! It's not good for your intelligence either, especially Potter which is silly nonsense ripped off of old movies and would be a fail without CGI!
MithLuin Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1296776172' post='2208370'] Sorry 'bout that. In my humble defense, you've got a guy (if not [i]The[/i] Guy) as your avatar. Subconscious connections are made. From now on, I promise to remember Kermit from [i]The Muppet Movie[/i]. "Myth! Myth!" "Yes?" ~Sternhauser [/quote] Oh, no worries, it has happened many times before. My online name is gender neutral, so it's hard to tell. Haha, I didn't think anyone knew who my avatar was! He's Maedhros from the Silmarillion, and I agree...he's the Man (well, Elf....).
Mark of the Cross Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296851744' post='2208795'] Oh, no worries, it has happened many times before. My online name is gender neutral, so it's hard to tell. Haha, I didn't think anyone knew who my avatar was! He's Maedhros from the Silmarillion, and I agree...he's the Man (well, Elf....). [/quote] Every time I saw that I thought of some fantasy character. Maybe I've seen him before and yes it made me think you were male.
Tally Marx Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1296792543' post='2208510'] In fact, I am pretty certain, with as much authority I have through the holy spirit, [/quote] Which, is absolutely zero.
Tally Marx Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296851744' post='2208795'] Oh, no worries, it has happened many times before. My online name is gender neutral, so it's hard to tell. Haha, I didn't think anyone knew who my avatar was! He's Maedhros from the Silmarillion, and I agree...he's the Man (well, Elf....). [/quote] I recognized him. I love Tolkien! And the Silmarillion was amesome.
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296860735' post='2208858'] Which, is absolutely zero. [/quote] And why do you believe it is absolutely zero?
Tally Marx Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1296877853' post='2208939'] And why do you believe it is absolutely zero? [/quote] Because you claim to have authority from the Holy Spirit, along with every Jehovah's Witness, Baptist, Methodist... in short, every Protestant. And for every denomination, there is a different and contradicting belief. Obviously, they cannot all be led by the Holy Spirit (does the Holy Spirit lie?). So it's time for everyone to stop pretending that they know something everyone else doesn't, and just admit that only the Church was promised authority in interpreting Scripture. I'm sure you know exactly what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter, and therefore what all Catholics believe (myself included). I'd also be surprised to learn that you haven't heard the arguments defending the belief. So, unless I am mistaken, we need not go through this at all. But, if we must, it's a conversation for the Debate Table. Edited February 5, 2011 by Tally Marx
tinytherese Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I thought that I'd add in some spiritual warfare humor. I thought of something to tick the devil off when he's tempting you. Call him Lucy! He is the fallen angel Lucifer afterall. "Lucy, you got some esplaining to do!" I also thought of keeping a rosary in your pocket and during temptation, taking it out and telling him in a confident voice, "Say hello to my [i]little[/i] friend! It's my mama's." Each bead on the rosary is a spiritual bullet to take him down afterall. I also recently thought of a song like this to show how you're not afraid of him and he has no power over you when being tempted. Guys can tweak it a little. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRz5XwSwY2w
sixpence Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 i saw the rite friday night! i enjoyed it. it is NOT a horror movie by it is very emotionally intense... i would recommend it!
Jesus_lol Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 rottentomatoes has it listed with a pretty horrible rating, basically saying that Anthony Hopkins is great but his co star and plot line are rather lame.
MithLuin Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Well, 'Anthony Hopkins is great' is enough of a reason to watch a movie, IMO.
Jesus_lol Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I wanna rewatch that movie with him, alec baldwin and the bear again...
Tally Marx Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Mark:[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"] [/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]You say that Jesus came to defeat satan, and that is why He would not allow a demon to possess someone. I would like to point out that, though Jesus did die to defeat satan, satan is still allowed to prowl the earth roaring like a lion. God wants to defeat satan, yes, and He will. Yet, He still gives satan power (to walk the, earth, for example). Hence, it is very arbitrary for you to point to a certain instance of satan’s having power via God, and say, “Oh, no, God wouldn’t allow that!” God obviously allows satan power in some things, to influence us in certain ways. Who are you to say that he wouldn’t be given power in other instances to influence us in other ways? So far, the differentiation made by you has no basis, and is arbitrary.[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Especially in light of the fact that, since possession does not take away one’s will as you originally seemed to believe, possession is nothing more than a trial, as any temptation is. It’s something which can be used to teach us a lesson. God doesn’t defeat satan by allowing him no room to maneuver. Rather, God allows satan plenty chance to tempt us, so that we can choose between God and satan. Why is temptation by possession all of a sudden taboo? Why would God not teach us a lesson in this way? Just something to think about. It's a moot point, anyway. Only the Church has the authority to interpret Scripture.[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"] [/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Pax et bonum,[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]~Tally Marx[/size][/font]
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297112727' post='2209781'] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Mark:[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"] [/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]You say that Jesus came to defeat satan, and that is why He would not allow a demon to possess someone. I would like to point out that, though Jesus did die to defeat satan, satan is still allowed to prowl the earth roaring like a lion. God wants to defeat satan, yes, and He will. Yet, He still gives satan power (to walk the, earth, for example). Hence, it is very arbitrary for you to point to a certain instance of satan's having power via God, and say, "Oh, no, God wouldn't allow that!" God obviously allows satan power in some things, to influence us in certain ways. Who are you to say that he wouldn't be given power in other instances to influence us in other ways? So far, the differentiation made by you has no basis, and is arbitrary.[/size][/font][/quote] When you use the world influence, I agree with that. Satan can only influence us during possession. It's exactly like a Hypnotism - he convinces you to do the wrong thing. Guess what - you still have a choice in the matter. That is the only difference in our opinions - I believe possession is simply the Devil convincing a person they have no choice in the matter. [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297112727' post='2209781'] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Especially in light of the fact that, since possession does not take away one's will as you originally seemed to believe, possession is nothing more than a trial, as any temptation is. It's something which can be used to teach us a lesson. God doesn't defeat satan by allowing him no room to maneuver. Rather, God allows satan plenty chance to tempt us, so that we can choose between God and satan. Why is temptation by possession all of a sudden taboo? Why would God not teach us a lesson in this way? Just something to think about. It's a moot point, anyway. Only the Church has the authority to interpret Scripture.[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"] [/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]Pax et bonum,[/size][/font] [font="Calibri"][size="3"]~Tally Marx[/size][/font] [/quote] According to scripture, there is no temptation God will allow into our lives that doesn't have a door out of it - so using your thoughts - Satan has no power over you unless you don't open the door that leads from that temptation or possession - if you submit to the temptation, than you just allowed Satan to fulfill his purpose. That is all that I am saying - there is always a way for a person to gain their life back - there is no trial or temptation God doesn't give an escape for - we just need to keep seeking and asking for that escape - and God will reveal it!
Tally Marx Posted February 11, 2011 Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1297383011' post='2211144'] When you use the world influence, I agree with that. Satan can only influence us during possession. It's exactly like a Hypnotism - he convinces you to do the wrong thing. Guess what - you still have a choice in the matter. That is the only difference in our opinions - I believe possession is simply the Devil convincing a person they have no choice in the matter. According to scripture, there is no temptation God will allow into our lives that doesn't have a door out of it - so using your thoughts - Satan has no power over you unless you don't open the door that leads from that temptation or possession - if you submit to the temptation, than you just allowed Satan to fulfill his purpose. That is all that I am saying - there is always a way for a person to gain their life back - there is no trial or temptation God doesn't give an escape for - we just need to keep seeking and asking for that escape - and God will reveal it! [/quote] To say that the devil convinces them to do something is to say that the person wills it. What you don't realize is that will and action (while they can work together) are not the same thing. An action is not necessarily a choice, and in the case of possession it is only your[i] opinion[/i] that they are the same. I say that their choice is not in the action or lack thereof, but in hope or despair. The choice does not lie in the physical (which I fully believe that satan can control), but in the intellect and the soul. And the experts (people who have been possessed, and exorcists) agree. Recognizing a temptation and being resigned to the fact that you are going to be tempted, is not subitting to the temptation. Submission, would be when you give in and give up and conform you will to satan's. Just making that distinction. Of course we should pray to the Lord for strength when we are being tempted, and sometimes he will remove the temptations completely and forever (Saint Aquinas comes to mind). And of course there is a way out the temptation that possession gives.... it's called an exorcism. Edited February 11, 2011 by Tally Marx
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297450539' post='2211398'] To say that the devil convinces them to do something is to say that the person wills it.[/quote] Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Look, we have a difference of opinion on the matter - and the Lord will judge both of us through this. Whether you want to believe it or not - I enjoyed debating you, because it helped me a lot to really understand Satan's power more and more, and how false his power is - so I have to say thank you for the fun debate - I learned something from God because of it. Maybe not what you would want me to, but you have blessed me anyways! And this debate has helped me determine who the 'loons' on the board are - so I am thankful of that. Edited February 12, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1296982284' post='2209277'] I thought of something to tick the devil off when he's tempting you. Call him Lucy! He is the fallen angel Lucifer afterall. "Lucy, you got some esplaining to do!" [/quote] I haven't laughed at Satan this much since I heard his human form is an old, partially bald and ugly man that kinda looks like this - [img]http://i31.tinypic.com/2saa8.gif[/img]
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 "And this debate has helped me determine who the 'loons' on the board are - so I am thankful of that. " i want to be included in the list of loons exposed by this thread
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