Female Altar Servers

[AudreyGrace]

I'm never sure what to think.. When I was a young girl, I went through training to become one, but then I stopped when I reached high school because my family moved and I became a lector instead. But recently, my parish's altar servers just... haven't been showing up! Unfortunately. Needless to say, word got out (thanks mom) that I know how to serve. So lately, if there's a lack of servers, I tend to be the go-to girl. I consider it an honor to serve in that way, but I have noticed that there are still some harsh feelings out there towards girl altar servers. For instance, one of my friends just received a new pastor into their parish, and he declared that there will be no more girl altar servers other than the ones already assigned.
In the pro-altar girl argument, it seems that in time of need, any altar server is better than none, regardless of gender.

In anti-altar girl argument, I feel like altar servers should be those discerning priesthood, for those who will someday practice the Mass themselves. And, priests cannot be women.

Any input, opinions, and references would be awesome

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1293786558' post='2195440']
In the pro-altar girl argument, it seems that in time of need, any altar server is better than none, regardless of gender.

In anti-altar girl argument, I feel like altar servers should be those discerning priesthood, for those who will someday practice the Mass themselves. And, priests cannot be women.
[/quote]

I understand and agree with both sides of the argument. It's a conundrum, really, because Catholic parents are not encouraging their boys to become altar servers or priests later on. It seems that encouragement has faded in some respects. It's really sad.

We just got a new pastor at our Church in July and you can tell that he is more on the traditional, orthodox side of things. During Midnight Mass on Christmas, all the altar servers--4 in all--were either junior high or high school aged boys. I thought it was really nice to see them up there and I really would like to see more of them.

However, I also think that female altar servers can prepare young girls to become nuns/Sisters when they get older, and that, too, is a needed ministry in the Church as well--granted not as much as priests, but necessary nonetheless.

I fall right in the middle, obviously, so I can't really be of any help to anyone looking for a definitive answer.

[dominicansoul]

i think, traditionally, we should have male-only altar servers, for that exact reason you state in your post. In the past, it was a role for young boys, to foster discernment into the priesthood.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1293787216' post='2195442']
During Midnight Mass on Christmas, all the altar servers--4 in all--were either junior high or high school aged boys. I thought it was really nice to see them up there and I really would like to see more of them.

[/quote]

I agree... something seems extra special when it's all boys. And I don't mean that in a quizzical teenage girl way, either lol.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293787570' post='2195443']
i think, traditionally, we should have male-only altar servers, for that exact reason you state in your post. In the past, it was a role for young boys, to foster discernment into the priesthood.
[/quote]

Yeah.. my best friend grew up in the Philippines and now lives here in the USA. Over there, they're called "Knights of the Altar". It's only men, and it's with the intention/hope of discerning priesthood. Or so she tells me at least.

[tnavarro61]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1293788125' post='2195445']
Yeah.. my best friend grew up in the Philippines and now lives here in the USA. Over there, they're called "Knights of the Altar". It's only men, and it's with the intention/hope of discerning priesthood. Or so she tells me at least.
[/quote]

that's true!


But there are other parishes here who has female altar servers too.

It's really hard to speak for a guy on this topic. But personally I think 'altar serving' must be reserved to boys for the purposes of discernment to priesthood. I don't think this would be effective for discernment to sisterhood/nunhood. Priesthood and sister/nunhood are two different things.

All my respect to the ladies out there.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1293787570' post='2195443']
i think, traditionally, we should have male-only altar servers, for that exact reason you state in your post. In the past, it was a role for young boys, to foster discernment into the priesthood.
[/quote]
I agree. At daily Mass, since there usually aren't younger boys there to serve, an adult serves. Perhaps when Kieran gets older, he'll want to serve, and he could serve at daily Mass when we go.

[CatherineM]

I'm from a time when female servers were not allowed. I did have to serve once. I was 13, the assigned sacristan for the 6am mass, and none of my male classmates showed up. I had to fill in, and didn't know what to do. I mean, watching it every day does not train you to actually do it. Luckily, there were only a few elderly women there.

[Cam42]

When we look at this issue, it becomes a sticky wicket in several different areas. First, it is allowed. However, that is about as far as I will go with support of service at the altar for females.

What I will say is this. We have been misguided in our view of active participation. We have been duped by the liberals into the belief that if we don't do something in the Mass, then we don't participate. That has led to a sense of entitlement. With that entitlement, there is an incorrect view that females have somehow been "left out" if they don't get in the sanctuary somehow. This can be as a lector, or an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, or as a server. This is not authentic and frankly, it is embarrassing that females would be treated so shabbily. To authentically participate in the Mass is not to do something, but rather it is to worship Our Lord. This is most perfectly done, in the pew...where one can unite himself to the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary.

For a male to serve at the altar is not a right, it is necessity. The reason for a preference of a male as opposed to a female is simple, males are a logical extension of the ordained ministries of the Church. However, I will offer this caveat....it is not better to serve at the altar. One must concentrate on what he is doing and cannot properly dispose himself to worship while the Mass is going on. The server is constantly doing something and that something takes away from worship. He finds the ora in the labora. It is much better to simply engage the ora.

I would propose that the partipation that is engaged in is participatio activa. Which is the lesser of the two types of participation. The other type is pariticpatio actuosa. It is actuosa that most closely unites one's soul to the Mass. [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/ArticleText/Index/65/SubIndex/120/ArticleIndex/35"]Participation[/url]

Getting back to where it is allowed....the best analogy is this....it is allowed that one may pass through a yellow light, but it is not advisable. I honestly counsel young women to find a different way to serve Our Lord. Everyone can best serve the Lord by worshipping in the pew. I make the same plea to anyone who serves as an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion or a Lector. Is there really a need to be seen in the Sanctuary? As a Master of Ceremony, I can honestly tell you that it is far better to be invisible than to be visible. [url="http://www.adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html"]Here[/url] is the best explanation. It is from the Vatican and it speaks most properly to my reasoning.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1293824998' post='2195513']
When we look at this issue, it becomes a sticky wicket in several different areas. First, it is allowed. However, that is about as far as I will go with support of service at the altar for females.

What I will say is this. We have been misguided in our view of active participation. We have been duped by the liberals into the belief that if we don't do something in the Mass, then we don't participate. That has led to a sense of entitlement. With that entitlement, there is an incorrect view that females have somehow been "left out" if they don't get in the sanctuary somehow. This can be as a lector, or an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, or as a server. This is not authentic and frankly, it is embarrassing that females would be treated so shabbily. To authentically participate in the Mass is not to do something, but rather it is to worship Our Lord. This is most perfectly done, in the pew...where one can unite himself to the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary.

For a male to serve at the altar is not a right, it is necessity. The reason for a preference of a male as opposed to a female is simple, males are a logical extension of the ordained ministries of the Church. However, I will offer this caveat....it is not better to serve at the altar. One must concentrate on what he is doing and cannot properly dispose himself to worship while the Mass is going on. The server is constantly doing something and that something takes away from worship. He finds the ora in the labora. It is much better to simply engage the ora.

I would propose that the partipation that is engaged in is participatio activa. Which is the lesser of the two types of participation. The other type is pariticpatio actuosa. It is actuosa that most closely unites one's soul to the Mass. [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/ArticleText/Index/65/SubIndex/120/ArticleIndex/35"]Participation[/url]

Getting back to where it is allowed....the best analogy is this....it is allowed that one may pass through a yellow light, but it is not advisable. I honestly counsel young women to find a different way to serve Our Lord. Everyone can best serve the Lord by worshipping in the pew. I make the same plea to anyone who serves as an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion or a Lector. Is there really a need to be seen in the Sanctuary? As a Master of Ceremony, I can honestly tell you that it is far better to be invisible than to be visible. [url="http://www.adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html"]Here[/url] is the best explanation. It is from the Vatican and it speaks most properly to my reasoning.
[/quote]

Good post. I don't have anything to add except a little anecdote:

My home parish allowed female altar servers until about seven years ago. Servers were dwindling and the male participation dwindling at an even faster rate. We got a new pastor who turned things around. He didn't do it with the best of pastoral care, but he did return the parish to all male altar servers. As of now, we have six-eight altar boys at every Mass, sometimes more. Some 40 boys altogether. Makes for a beautiful Corpus Christi procession.

The boys comes out of the woodwork when the girls are out and when the priest works to make the program a good one. The boys move along rank by age and skill. The little ones really look up to the older ones.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1293824998' post='2195513']
Is there really a need to be seen in the Sanctuary?
[/quote]

I will say that it is better for altar servers to be male rather than female. However, I am a lector and I don't do it for a "privilege" to be in the sanctuary. Don't get me wrong, it is a privilege. But in my example, the huge majority of my parish is old and unable to serve in any way. My mother brought me up telling me that it was an honor if a priest asked me to serve the Mass in any way. I won't altar serve unless the priest comes out into the church before Mass and asks me, in which case I feel the need to obey him. I lector because not many others in our Chuch will, not because I want to claim my position as a woman having equal rights as the male lectors.
I agree with your statements about the altar being an environment that better suits men, because Jesus appointed men as preachers in the first place. However, when the need arises, I don't feel that God will be upset if a woman had to take the place of an altar server, lector, or Eucharistic minister.
And believe me, I'd rather be in the pew worshiping during Mass anyways : )
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/amen.gif[/img]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1293824998' post='2195513']
When we look at this issue, it becomes a sticky wicket in several different areas. First, it is allowed. However, that is about as far as I will go with support of service at the altar for females.

What I will say is this. We have been misguided in our view of active participation. We have been duped by the liberals into the belief that if we don't do something in the Mass, then we don't participate. That has led to a sense of entitlement. With that entitlement, there is an incorrect view that females have somehow been "left out" if they don't get in the sanctuary somehow. This can be as a lector, or an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, or as a server. This is not authentic and frankly, it is embarrassing that females would be treated so shabbily. To authentically participate in the Mass is not to do something, but rather it is to worship Our Lord. This is most perfectly done, in the pew...where one can unite himself to the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary.

For a male to serve at the altar is not a right, it is necessity. The reason for a preference of a male as opposed to a female is simple, males are a logical extension of the ordained ministries of the Church. However, I will offer this caveat....it is not better to serve at the altar. One must concentrate on what he is doing and cannot properly dispose himself to worship while the Mass is going on. The server is constantly doing something and that something takes away from worship. He finds the ora in the labora. It is much better to simply engage the ora.

I would propose that the partipation that is engaged in is participatio activa. Which is the lesser of the two types of participation. The other type is pariticpatio actuosa. It is actuosa that most closely unites one's soul to the Mass. [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/ArticleText/Index/65/SubIndex/120/ArticleIndex/35"]Participation[/url]

Getting back to where it is allowed....the best analogy is this....it is allowed that one may pass through a yellow light, but it is not advisable. I honestly counsel young women to find a different way to serve Our Lord. Everyone can best serve the Lord by worshipping in the pew. I make the same plea to anyone who serves as an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion or a Lector. Is there really a need to be seen in the Sanctuary? As a Master of Ceremony, I can honestly tell you that it is far better to be invisible than to be visible. [url="http://www.adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html"]Here[/url] is the best explanation. It is from the Vatican and it speaks most properly to my reasoning.
[/quote]
I found your post to be very well-put. Thanks.

[Lisa]

I was an altar server for a few years, but when I got older, I also was a lector and eucharistic minister. One of the amazing things that comes from being an altar server is a new reverence for the Mass. I agree that there is much more "usefulness" of learning about the Mass for a boy- especially a young man discerning the priesthood.

But, I found great beauty in preparing the altar for our Eucharistic Lord. I think ideally they should be boys, but I'm not sure if we should exclude a young girl from serving the church (especially if she has a desire to do so... I am personally disheartened by kids who's parents have made them do it and express no love/reverence for the opportunity).

I do LOVEEEE something they are doing in our diocese. They're called Knights of the Holy Temple, and they are young men who have a true devotion and interest in serving at Mass. They also focus on daily prayer life and living by an "honor code". Many of them have gone on to be diocesan seminarians (and I think maybe a few of them are priests now). It makes serving "cool" for a high schooler again, I guess... and the little ones do look up to the older high school boys. [url="http://templeknight-org.ecatholicchurches.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=174"]http://templeknight-org.ecatholicchurches.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=174[/url] It's pretty awesome!!!!

Moral of the story- I'm also torn.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

Cardinal Arinze has a video with a section about this on youtube. He's quite against female alter servers for the same reason that you gave: Alter servers should be those thinking about the priesthood. I'm completely traditional and I adore keeping traditions like family traditions. It's a duty of mine, and other traditional Catholics, restore everything that was such as all male alter servers. Justly, it's unfair for women because, if they're alter servers, they might become close to the idea of priesthood and gain the desire of being a priest. We all know it's impossible for a woman to become a priest. I know of women that are now priests but they're obviously excommunicated.

However, alter servers are becoming harder to find. So, in the case where there's only a woman available, I'm not against it. If there's plenty of men available, then no, leave it to the men.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Hinter dem Horizont

[Cam42]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1293862426' post='2195651']
I will say that it is better for altar servers to be male rather than female. However, I am a lector and I don't do it for a "privilege" to be in the sanctuary. Don't get me wrong, it is a privilege. But in my example, the huge majority of my parish is old and unable to serve in any way. My mother brought me up telling me that it was an honor if a priest asked me to serve the Mass in any way. I won't altar serve unless the priest comes out into the church before Mass and asks me, in which case I feel the need to obey him. I lector because not many others in our Chuch will, not because I want to claim my position as a woman having equal rights as the male lectors.
I agree with your statements about the altar being an environment that better suits men, because Jesus appointed men as preachers in the first place. However, when the need arises, I don't feel that God will be upset if a woman had to take the place of an altar server, lector, or Eucharistic minister.
And believe me, I'd rather be in the pew worshiping during Mass anyways : )
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/amen.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Let me challenge you a little bit. It isn't about a necessity of "bodies." You feel that you have this sense of obedience, but is it obedient to engage in an action that is unjustified? Or is it tacit approval and participation in an abuse? If you pastor asked you to do a dance in the Processional, would you do it, knowing that liturgical dance is strictly forbidden?

I find it hard to believe that so many men of the parish are aged or infirmed that they cannot assist at the altar, unless you assist at a nursing home. I think that your pastor has to do a better job of recuiting men. As an aside, that is what we are doing at my parish. While we have not reached that level yet, we are slowly moving toward the ideal that I proposed and support.

And honestly, you say that you feel that God won't be upset, how do you know? As you say, Jesus did appoint men to be preachers.

Again, just because it's allowed, doesn't mean that it is a best practice.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1293923716' post='2195771']
I was an altar server for a few years, but when I got older, I also was a lector and eucharistic minister. One of the amazing things that comes from being an altar server is a new reverence for the Mass. I agree that there is much more "usefulness" of learning about the Mass for a boy- especially a young man discerning the priesthood.

But, I found great beauty in preparing the altar for our Eucharistic Lord. I think ideally they should be boys, but I'm not sure if we should exclude a young girl from serving the church (especially if she has a desire to do so... I am personally disheartened by kids who's parents have made them do it and express no love/reverence for the opportunity).

I do LOVEEEE something they are doing in our diocese. They're called Knights of the Holy Temple, and they are young men who have a true devotion and interest in serving at Mass. They also focus on daily prayer life and living by an "honor code". Many of them have gone on to be diocesan seminarians (and I think maybe a few of them are priests now). It makes serving "cool" for a high schooler again, I guess... and the little ones do look up to the older high school boys. [url="http://templeknight-org.ecatholicchurches.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=174"]http://templeknight-org.ecatholicchurches.com/index.cfm?load=page&page=174[/url] It's pretty awesome!!!!

Moral of the story- I'm also torn.
[/quote]

First, as an altar server, you should never be preparing the altar. That is reserved for an instituted acolyte or above. So, I think that to find beauty in an abuse is problematic. We cannot approach the altar in that way. We may present the water and wine to the celebrant so that he may prepare the chalice, but we are not doing that. And if you find great beauty in holding a glass full of wine/water, I would question why?

Second, if you think that it is more appropriate for a male to serve, then why would you not promote that, wholeheartedly? Do you find some sort of injustice in not allowing for a girl to serve at the altar? I presume this, because you state that you're not sure that you would exclude a girl from serving. Are you talking about particpatio activa (doing something physical) as opposed to particpatio actuosa (actually participating) being prime? If that is the case, then we can have a conversation. If not, then I would be happy to expound on the link above about Participation.

[Lisa]

Thank you Cam for your insight. Honestly, I had never heard of an instituted acolyte and am troubled that I may have been particpating in an abuse of the sacred liturgy.

[Lil Red]

whomever does it, i just wish they wouldn't wear tennis shoes or flip flops or other raggedy shoes. wear some decent dress shoes, for goodness sakes.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1293824998' post='2195513']
What I will say is this. We have been misguided in our view of active participation. We have been duped by the liberals into the belief that if we don't do something in the Mass, then we don't participate. That has led to a sense of entitlement. With that entitlement, there is an incorrect view that females have somehow been "left out" if they don't get in the sanctuary somehow. This can be as a lector, or an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, or as a server. This is not authentic and frankly, it is embarrassing that females would be treated so shabbily. To authentically participate in the Mass is not to do something, but rather it is to worship Our Lord. This is most perfectly done, in the pew...where one can unite himself to the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary.[/quote]
but...but...but...i feel left out!

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1293824998' post='2195513']I would propose that the partipation that is engaged in is participatio activa. Which is the lesser of the two types of participation. The other type is pariticpatio actuosa. It is actuosa that most closely unites one's soul to the Mass. [url="http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/ArticleText/Index/65/SubIndex/120/ArticleIndex/35"]Participation[/url][/quote]
woah, Harry Potter moment there.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1293859951' post='2195646']
Good post. I don't have anything to add except a little anecdote:

My home parish allowed female altar servers until about seven years ago. Servers were dwindling and the male participation dwindling at an even faster rate. We got a new pastor who turned things around. He didn't do it with the best of pastoral care, but he did return the parish to all male altar servers. As of now, we have six-eight altar boys at every Mass, sometimes more. Some 40 boys altogether. Makes for a beautiful Corpus Christi procession.

The boys comes out of the woodwork when the girls are out and when the priest works to make the program a good one. The boys move along rank by age and skill. The little ones really look up to the older ones.
[/quote]
the thing is, we have to be conscious that boys/men and girls/women are wired differently. gee, whodathunk it? if boys/men don't see that they are needed, they won't step up. and girls/women have a tendency to take over.

in other words, i agree with you. lol