Winchester Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1305972605' post='2244124'] You are right, and I am not. Just highlighting that the American Revolution was simply a seperation of America as a country from Britian. It was independant of any human rights issues. [/quote] You mean like personal ownership of military grade weapons, not quartering troops in one's home on order of the government, disallowing the government to make laws against religions, the freedom to criticize the government or the freedom from unwarranted search and seizure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1305984728' post='2244141'] You mean like personal ownership of military grade weapons, not quartering troops in one's home on order of the government, disallowing the government to make laws against religions, the freedom to criticize the government or the freedom from unwarranted search and seizure? [/quote] or of assembly, or from corruption of blood... Or many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shover Robot Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1305972605' post='2244124'] You are right, and I am not. Just highlighting that the American Revolution was simply a seperation of America as a country from Britian. It was independant of any human rights issues. [/quote] So being treated unjustly isn't a human rights issue? Or are you saying that the colonists were treated fairly by British and shouldn't have revolted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='The Shover Robot' timestamp='1306005744' post='2244254'] So being treated unjustly isn't a human rights issue? Or are you saying that the colonists were treated fairly by British and shouldn't have revolted? [/quote] I don't know much about American history, can't really debate the topic. But from a very simplistic view, there were British people living in America one day and a while later they were Americans. Means they changed leadership, I am not sure how that relates to human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='The Shover Robot' timestamp='1306005744' post='2244254'] So being treated unjustly isn't a human rights issue? Or are you saying that the colonists were treated fairly by British and shouldn't have revolted? [/quote] I don't know much about American history, can't really debate the topic. But from a very simplistic view, there were British people living in America one day and a while later they were Americans. Means they changed leadership, I am not sure how that relates to human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 Simple, one day they did not have the government acknowledging the right to arms, security against warrantless search and seizure, speech, assembly, and others the next day they did have a government that acknowledged these rightsStevil where are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306011085' post='2244272'] Simple, one day they did not have the government acknowledging the right to arms, security against warrantless search and seizure, speech, assembly, and others the next day they did have a government that acknowledged these rights Stevil where are you from? [/quote] I'm from New Zealand, we are still a commonwealth colony of sorts, but we have our own govt which we vote in every three years. I'm not so precious about a right to bear arms, I'd rather people didn't have guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306011315' post='2244274'] I'd rather people didn't have guns. [/quote] Does that include the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1306012235' post='2244277'] Does that include the government? [/quote] Our Politicians don't cary guns, they don't have armed escorts, most of our police don't carry guns, but we do have an armed offenders squad, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306012594' post='2244282'] Our Politicians don't cary guns, they don't have armed escorts, most of our police don't carry guns, but we do have an armed offenders squad, just in case. [/quote] What about your military Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 [quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1306018489' post='2244301'] What about your military [/quote] Elite Ninja Warriors, they only use swords, nunchucks and throwing stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306020213' post='2244315'] Elite Ninja Warriors, they only use swords, nunchucks and throwing stars. [/quote] Very impressive, I am sure they stike fear in the hearts of your enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306012594' post='2244282'] Our Politicians don't cary guns, they don't have armed escorts, most of our police don't carry guns, but we do have an armed offenders squad, just in case. [/quote] First, I will acknowledge the excellence of your ninja response. Secondly, let me clarify that I am not asking about what your government does, but what you believe. You would rather no one carried guns, but do you extend that to the government? Should the government alone have the right to carry firearms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1306024292' post='2244340'] You would rather no one carried guns, but do you extend that to the government? Should the government alone have the right to carry firearms? [/quote] My preference would be that no-one carries guns. No wars, no shoot outs, no hunting, no gun sports. My stance is simply because guns are leathal and diplomatic avenues are best sought rather than killing people with different POVs. However, the world isn't that simple. People are sometimes very determined with a political view. Some criminals will do what it takes to defy the law. So Armies must be created, armed and trained, police forces must be created, armed and trained. I see preventative measures as being more effective than simply trying to deal with the aftermath. So a strong gun control, border control is necessary. I don't trust the average untrained, unevaluated civilian with a gun. Accidents happen all the time, people get angry, depressed and desperate all the time. I would say limiting to the government controlled and trained armies, and to a few trained and trusted police , seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1306033002' post='2244387'] My preference would be that no-one carries guns. No wars, no shoot outs, no hunting, no gun sports. My stance is simply because guns are leathal and diplomatic avenues are best sought rather than killing people with different POVs. However, the world isn't that simple. People are sometimes very determined with a political view. Some criminals will do what it takes to defy the law. So Armies must be created, armed and trained, police forces must be created, armed and trained. I see preventative measures as being more effective than simply trying to deal with the aftermath. So a strong gun control, border control is necessary. I don't trust the average untrained, unevaluated civilian with a gun. Accidents happen all the time, people get angry, depressed and desperate all the time. I would say limiting to the government controlled and trained armies, and to a few trained and trusted police , seems reasonable. [/quote] And if I don't consent and carry a weapon, what would you have done to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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