TeresaBenedicta Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307973681' post='2253131'] While I agree contemporary music can be fine; I do not think it should be given 'pride of place'. I think therein lies the difference. [/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307974334' post='2253136'] Are we talking about contemporary [b]secular[/b] music or contemporary [b]Christian/Catholic[/b] music? If it's the former than I 100% agree; if it's the latter, I do not. [/quote] then I believe we disagree. <suspenseful music> Be prepared to be destroyed!!!! </suspenseful music> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307977181' post='2253144'] then I believe we disagree. <suspenseful music> Be prepared to be destroyed!!!! </suspenseful music> [/quote] [img]http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/images/yankee_sweep_copy.jpg[/img] You're on, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 point of clarification.. you feel both contemporary secular music and contemporary Christian/Catholic music are acceptable? not sure if I was reading you wrong, but are you against Christian/Catholic music? Where are we mandated/allowed/permitted to use purely secular music in the Mass? I think you stated previously that not ALL secular music would be appropriate for Mass. What if other people are not as 'stringent' as you? (lol, only cuz i know you) Don't you think it opens a rather precarious door to a rather slippery slope? explain why or why not. If you wish.. I can just accept your defeat now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307973681' post='2253131'] While I agree contemporary music can be fine; I do not think it should be given 'pride of place'. I think therein lies the difference. [/quote] I agree. I think that contemporary Catholic hymns [i]can[/i] certainly have a place in the Mass, but secular music does[i] not[/i]. I grew up in a parish with Augustinian friars, and they were STELLAR. It was a vernacular NO Mass, but they still frequently used Latin and chant in certain parts of the Mass (but still a fairly liberal use of contemporary hymns), and we had incense all the time. It was amesome. When I think of the NO done right I think of them. In other news yesterday we learned that a couple families are moving on to their next duty station. And I am not ashamed to admit that I was stoked that the tambourine playing girl was going to be leaving. Every time she started rapping that contraption against her thigh or palm I wanted to race up there and snatch it away and smack her with it. Sooooo bad for my disposition and proper attention to the Mass. Tambourines should most definitely not have pride of place in the Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmenchristi Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 This is a great video! Really well done. And as the video says, the church documents expose quite thoroughly what is appropriately called liturgical music. Music isn't an accessory to the liturgy, it is PART of the liturgy and therefore subject to specific ecclesiastical legislation. BTW the songs and especially the settings of the Ordinary (that is, Gloria, Sanctus... the things that are always the same) should be approved by the local bishop or episcopal conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307978462' post='2253149'] point of clarification.. you feel both contemporary secular music and contemporary Christian/Catholic music are acceptable? not sure if I was reading you wrong, but are you against Christian/Catholic music? Where are we mandated/allowed/permitted to use purely secular music in the Mass? I think you stated previously that not ALL secular music would be appropriate for Mass. What if other people are not as 'stringent' as you? (lol, only cuz i know you) Don't you think it opens a rather precarious door to a rather slippery slope? explain why or why not. If you wish.. I can just accept your defeat now. [/quote] LOL. I concede NOTHING, [i]especially[/i] to you. It's simple: I'm sure that there is an argument that could be made for the inclusion of secular music into the mass. However, I am of the opinion that that argument would fail to win over a [i]stringent[/i] person such as myself. The notion that a slippery slope exists is proof positive, in my opinion; you shouldn't have to worry about content management when it comes to the mass. And while I am very much in favor of including contemporary Christian and Catholic songs/hymns/mass settings into the mass where it's appropriate. For the most part, the songs would fall into line with the Church and its teachings. Similarly, it would connect the congregation to the fact that (as LIFE TEEN famously says) "the mass never ends, it MUST BE LIVED!" Being able to turn on the radio in your car and hear the song they sung during Communion is a powerful way to keep people engaged in the liturgical mindset, provided the songs selected are appropriate. That's where the Choir Director(s) at the parish need to be considerate and knowledgeable before allowing the inclusion of the music. I hope that answers your question. I know how you dense you Bostonians can be, so if you'd like me to dumb it down for you and maybe use smaller words, I'd be happy to oblige Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1307951302' post='2253078']If all were aware of that, many more would no longer accept the absolutely insipid hymnody that passes for music in the average community parish. [/quote] There is no modern hymnody. There is merely modern song writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307980192' post='2253162'] LOL. I concede NOTHING, [i]especially[/i] to you. It's simple: I'm sure that there is an argument that could be made for the inclusion of secular music into the mass. However, I am of the opinion that that argument would fail to win over a [i]stringent[/i] person such as myself. The notion that a slippery slope exists is proof positive, in my opinion; you shouldn't have to worry about content management when it comes to the mass. And while I am very much in favor of including contemporary Christian and Catholic songs/hymns/mass settings into the mass where it's appropriate. For the most part, the songs would fall into line with the Church and its teachings. Similarly, it would connect the congregation to the fact that (as LIFE TEEN famously says) "the mass never ends, it MUST BE LIVED!" Being able to turn on the radio in your car and hear the song they sung during Communion is a powerful way to keep people engaged in the liturgical mindset, provided the songs selected are appropriate. That's where the Choir Director(s) at the parish need to be considerate and knowledgeable before allowing the inclusion of the music. I hope that answers your question. I know how you dense you Bostonians can be, so if you'd like me to dumb it down for you and maybe use smaller words, I'd be happy to oblige [/quote] You're so cute when you type alot and don't say anything!! While I think it nifty if I could turn on the radio and hear the song they sung during Communion; fads fade quickly and tradition lives eternal. Granted, I am all for the notion that the "Mass never ends...et al"; I guess I just do not see secular music (because of it "fadiness") as a good vehicle to accomplish this. (you just need to tap once, and I'll stop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Why are so many people being so passive-agressive? Can we not have a serious discussion about this without getting little our little digs at each other under the table? Ash, I think most Catholics are shocked to hear many of the truths of the Second Vatican Council. So many people say to me 'well Vatican II changed that' and I end up telling them what the documents actually said, but normally it makes little difference and just makes them angry. The best one was 'the Pope doesn't like traditionalists like you,' (bearing in mind I've never been to Mass in the Extraordinary Form in my life and have no great desire to do so). Most people rely on their priests to inform them properly, and many just simply don't want to hear things that don't suit them (I'm certainly not saying this is the case with you). I think the case of music is a difficult one because of the 'artistic temper' and also because of the effect music has on emotions. People become attached to hymns and when you tell them that their granny's favourite hymn really isn't acceptable for use during Mass, you're in for a fight because you'll always have a 'Father so-and-so' who let them sing that hymn all the time. What I would like to see in the near future is a more precise directive on sacred music - something that cannot be bent or twisted to suit any argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307981355' post='2253171'] You're so cute when you type alot and don't say anything!! While I think it nifty if I could turn on the radio and hear the song they sung during Communion; fads fade quickly and tradition lives eternal. Granted, I am all for the notion that the "Mass never ends...et al"; I guess I just do not see secular music (because of it "fadiness") as a good vehicle to accomplish this. (you just need to tap once, and I'll stop) [/quote] We are in accord, numskull: secular music should NOT be in the mass. Surely your thickheadedness isn't causing you to conflate "secular" (re: NON-Christian) music with contemporary (re: NON-traditional) Christian/Catholic music, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1307981367' post='2253172'] Why are so many people being so passive-agressive? Can we not have a serious discussion about this without getting little our little digs at each other under the table? [/quote] If you are referring to the back and forth between MiKolbe and I, fear not: it's nothing but brotherly busting of chops. We do this offline, on Facebook, all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I love you, Kujo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1307981754' post='2253175'] I love you, Kujo. [/quote] [img]http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-set/BQcDAAAAAwoDanBnAAAABC5vdXQKFmNPQTA2UTczM2hHeWVlUjRKNXFFS0EAAAACaWQKAXgAAAAEc2l6ZQ.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1307981612' post='2253174'] If you are referring to the back and forth between MiKolbe and I, fear not: it's nothing but brotherly busting of chops. We do this offline, on Facebook, all the time. [/quote] Nah, I was struck by the stench of bad attitude from page 1. I wasn't referring specifically to the two of you, but I'm glad you love each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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