Women Soldiers

[InPersonaChriste]

Since I was little i have always had respect for the Canadain Soldiers who serve our country. I know that they have had their problems, but I still think that CF is really respectable.

But,
If I was a man in Infantry and had to count on women on the front lines. Well I would prefer a tobacco's chewing jerk, to a femenazi.

I personally think that if you are going to be a woman in the Canadian Forces, be something like a Nurse, Doctor, Med Tech, Lab Tech, or social worker. And leave the leadership and crazy artillery to the guys. Sometimes I think that women like these tend to attract to much attention to themselves. Sure they want to be just like the guys, but really, they are women.

So if their is a woman out their, take into consideration that a well balanced workspace (equal amounts of men and women) is good if you are considering a military carreer.

Or just leave it up to the men :D


BTW
I love guns, I love war, and I am all for the equality of women. I guess I just get so pissed off when people are talking about how horrible it is to have women soldiers. I am not a femenist, but I do know that in emergency situations, it should not really matter who you are fighting with. As long as they know their duty in the field, all should go well. I totally did not mean to make this offensive in any way. I just know how pissed all my brothers get when I beat them at sports (more like halo...) and how I can be a distraction when I play gruesome manly games (dont worry I dont dress offensively, but a woman did tell me that I can serve as a distraction....).

[xSilverPhinx]

I don't see a problem with women serving in the front lines, though if it comes down to brute strength versus brute strength, women [i]generally[/i] loose. I don't see how being a woman can affect quality leadership, though. The main deterrent IMO is that men don't really respect a woman in a leadership role as much as they respect a man, and respect is the basis for leadership to work.

[CatherineM]

I come from a military family. I wanted to go to West Point at one time but my ankle kept me out. I was in ROTC briefly until my knee got me kicked out. I've always thought I could handle my own at the front line, but I'm far from petite, and I have been described as freakishly strong. I do remember having a conversation with my dad about the subject. As someone who had actually been in the trenches, I was interested in his perspective. He said that he had no problem with the idea of a woman risking her life for her country (so long as it wasn't me of course), but he wondered about overall mission completion. He was concerned that in the heat of battle, a man's innate wiring to protect women, might kick in, and a soldier would do something to protect his female squad mates at the expense of the mission. I suspect that is less of an issue for men today than for a man from my dad's generation. I do remember reading an article about guys in Iraq talking about their female comrades, and they said they treated them with respect like they would their sisters. It still makes me wonder in a firefight if they would rely on them like any other soldier, or again protect them like they were in fact their sisters.

[Winchester]

Soldiers need sammiches.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308781053' post='2257423']
BTW
I love guns, [b]I love war,[/b] and I am all for the equality of women.
[/quote]

Why would you love the brutal business of killing each other over political differences and injustices? That's....really gruesome. You can love your country and love your military, and support what the military is trying to accomplish with its missions, but to 'love war'? I'm sorry, but that sounds really sadistic and messed up.

Now, if you were an undead Nazi vampire, it would make perfect sense. But as a sane human being? I just wonder what would lead anyone to make such a claim.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE9mQ-6hnVg[/media]

I mean, if you want everyone to die, it makes sense, but otherwise....

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308793511' post='2257486']
Why would you love the brutal business of killing each other over political differences and injustices? That's....really gruesome. You can love your country and love your military, and support what the military is trying to accomplish with its missions, but to 'love war'? I'm sorry, but that sounds really sadistic and messed up.

Now, if you were an undead Nazi vampire, it would make perfect sense. But as a sane human being? I just wonder what would lead anyone to make such a claim.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE9mQ-6hnVg[/media]

I mean, if you want everyone to die, it makes sense, but otherwise....
[/quote]
Phew, now I can say it too. I had a feeling that if I said it first I'd get flamed by someone.

[4588686]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308781053' post='2257423']
BTW
I love guns, I love war, and I a[/QUOTE]

You love war? Based on what? Halo?

I'm sorry. That's just a dumb thing to say. Nobody should love war. And if you haven't been in a war you really have no buisness claiming that you love it.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Hasan

[4588686]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308793952' post='225748]I had a feeling that if I said it first I'd get flamed by someone.
[/quote]


I find it hard to believe that you're really that obtuse.

[4588686]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308783859' post='2257434']
I don't see a problem with women serving in the front lines, though if it comes down to brute strength versus brute strength, women [i]generally[/i] loose. I don't see how being a woman can affect quality leadership, though. The main deterrent IMO is that men don't really respect a woman in a leadership role as much as they respect a man, and respect is the basis for leadership to work.
[/quote]

Brute strength means a lot in an combat unit. Combat soldiers carry a lot of weight on their person. There's a reason so many have serious back and knee problems.

[xSilverPhinx]

Yeah...war just looks like messy business to me. People die. It's not a game. Not anything like the romanticized and idealised versions that you find in Hollywood movies.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308795039' post='2257493']
I find it hard to believe that you're really that obtuse.
[/quote]
Oh find somebody else to troll.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308795385' post='2257496']
Brute strength means a lot in an combat unit. Combat soldiers carry a lot of weight on their person. There's a reason so many have serious back and knee problems.
[/quote]

Yes, I think that's the main comparative weakness.

[4588686]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308795459' post='2257498']
Oh find somebody else to troll.
[/quote]


Not trolling you. Just annoyed that you would actually pretend that you have reason to fear being 'flamed' for taking the position that claiming to love war is in poor taste and immoral. That's not why people got pissed at you on the Memorial Day thread. I don't think that you are really so obtuse as to not understand that.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308795842' post='2257500']
Not trolling you. Just annoyed that you would actually pretend that you have reason to fear being 'flamed' for taking the position that claiming to love war is in poor taste and immoral. That's not why people got pissed at you on the Memorial Day thread. I don't think that you are really so obtuse as to not understand that.
[/quote]

Ok I give up. I officially don't remember why you annoyed me before. I'm just going to believe that I've enjoyed your posts since day one.

[elizabeth09]

I think only men should fight because they have something that women does not have. Man power

[MithLuin]

I agree that infantry is a very physically demanding job. It would be easier to find guys who are capable of performing well than women, because yes, men [i]do[/i] have a physical advantage.

However.

There [i]are[/i] women who can do that and meet the criteria.

So, which is it? Is it a physical standard that has to be met...or do you have to be a man? Because if you make it about physical requirements (endurance, strength, eyesight, etc), you [i]will[/i] find a woman somewhere who a) wants to be in combat and b) meets the criteria.

I think that's pretty nuts, personally. My best friend's sister is a West Point grad, so I don't think there's any problem with women being officers in the Army. I won't say she's [i]never[/i] had to deal with guys in an awkward way, but it works for her, and she loves her work and is good at it. If she were allowed to be in combat, she might sign up for something like that. She actually did get a combat assignment once by accident, but someone noticed before she went.

So, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but women would always be the minority in such a situation. Perhaps using female soldiers in combat would make us look desperate to our enemies, so there might be a strategic reason not to go there. I wouldn't know; I'm not a student of military history.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308796945' post='2257512']
I agree that infantry is a very physically demanding job. It would be easier to find guys who are capable of performing well than women, because yes, men [i]do[/i] have a physical advantage.

However.

There [i]are[/i] women who can do that and meet the criteria.

So, which is it? Is it a physical standard that has to be met...or do you have to be a man? Because if you make it about physical requirements (endurance, strength, eyesight, etc), you [i]will[/i] find a woman somewhere who a) wants to be in combat and b) meets the criteria.

I think that's pretty nuts, personally. My best friend's sister is a West Point grad, so I don't think there's any problem with women being officers in the Army. I won't say she's [i]never[/i] had to deal with guys in an awkward way, but it works for her, and she loves her work and is good at it. If she were allowed to be in combat, she might sign up for something like that. She actually did get a combat assignment once by accident, but someone noticed before she went.

So, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but women would always be the minority in such a situation. Perhaps using female soldiers in combat would make us look desperate to our enemies, so there might be a strategic reason not to go there. I wouldn't know; I'm not a student of military history.
[/quote]

Makes more sense to say that certain criteria should be met, independent of gender. There are also men who wouldn't meet the criteria and stronger women would be preferable to them in a infantry...

[MithLuin]

Perhaps, but you have to recall that combat involves living in pretty primitive conditions for long stretches of time. Wanting the group to be single sex doesn't have to be about physical criteria, it can also be about practical considerations.

[Maximilianus]

Of course there is a lot more to it than physical strength. Hang out with a squad of Marines out at a forward operating base or as part of a tank crew for a month, you will never want to do that again and will understand why men and women are not compatible in a combat unit.

[InPersonaChriste]

Aight as for loving war I meant it not in a Halo way or in any other way other than this:
I guess that I sort of am attracted to the whole *duty with honour* thing. I meant it to be in the sense that I would do everything in my power to protect my country, and my family. I also am really attracted to the history of war. I would prefer a world without war, but that is not going to happen. I do not romaticise war, nor do I try to push it away.

I am still having a really hard time writing my idea's down, I have always had a horrible time truly expressing my thoughts. And I think that the Debate table does help a little bit.

As for physical requirements for women. Truthfully we are not ever going to be built like men. I am not saying that we cant be infantry soldiers or firefighters, but answer me this: would you prefer to be carried by a man out of a flaming building, or a woman?

Truthfully I would feel safer with a guy.

Oh and this debate is sort of me trying to figure out if I want to join the Canadian Forces.