Women Soldiers

[arfink]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308866997' post='2257823']
Honest question, not trying to start a flamewar: do you believe that the American military is working exclusively and effectively for the greater good everywhere in which it is currently operating?
[/quote]

From my soldier buddies I'd say that's what the majority of them believe. And in fact they do a lot of humanitarian work to help the people in the countries they tour in, as you'll hear frequently. But I also have at least one friend who signed up and left in disgust when his tour was over because he thought the humanitarian work was something to boost troop morale when the reality of why they were there was to enforce the "will" of the US government, by hook or by crook. Meaning, if the humanitarian aid doesn't assuage the people and you still get attacked then at least you're a soldier and you can just shoot them. It's a big part of the PTSD alot of guys get- the idea that they were "played" by the country they love. I have only ever talked about it in depth with one guy, who was a sniper. He won't tell me much about his tour, and I didn't want to press him. But one thing he told me has stuck with me: He thinks that it would have been better for him to sign on to a non-military humanitarian group if he wanted to go help the cause of freedom in other countries.

As a US citizen I can honestly say I do not ever want to be in a US-led invasion of another country. Now, if we got attacked by a *nation* or some other cohesive force and not some gang of terrorists that required an actual war in the "just war" sense then yes, I'd sign up to fight if need be. I'd honestly prefer to work a support role in that case. But chasing down criminals in other people's countries by sending in an army is just a bad idea on so many levels. It's what started World War I, if you recall.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1308868937' post='2257847']
From my soldier buddies I'd say that's what the majority of them believe. And in fact they do a lot of humanitarian work to help the people in the countries they tour in, as you'll hear frequently. But I also have at least one friend who signed up and left in disgust when his tour was over because he thought the humanitarian work was something to boost troop morale when the reality of why they were there was to enforce the "will" of the US government, by hook or by crook. Meaning, if the humanitarian aid doesn't assuage the people and you still get attacked then at least you're a soldier and you can just shoot them. It's a big part of the PTSD alot of guys get- the idea that they were "played" by the country they love. I have only ever talked about it in depth with one guy, who was a sniper. He won't tell me much about his tour, and I didn't want to press him. But one thing he told me has stuck with me: He thinks that it would have been better for him to sign on to a non-military humanitarian group if he wanted to go help the cause of freedom in other countries.

As a US citizen I can honestly say I do not ever want to be in a US-led invasion of another country. Now, if we got attacked by a *nation* or some other cohesive force and not some gang of terrorists that required an actual war in the "just war" sense then yes, I'd sign up to fight if need be. I'd honestly prefer to work a support role in that case. But chasing down criminals in other people's countries by sending in an army is just a bad idea on so many levels. It's what started World War I, if you recall.
[/quote]
I absolutely believe that most soldiers are there for what they believe to be the right reasons. However, I do have serious reservations about how right the reality of the situation is. I say this not to make anybody angry, because I know that here on Phatmass there are a lot of people with family in the military, and who respect the military greatly. However, I do have serious moral reservations about the armed conflicts we're seeing today, and I think it's something serious Catholics need to think very frankly about.

[arfink]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308869393' post='2257850']
I absolutely believe that most soldiers are there for what they believe to be the right reasons. However, I do have serious reservations about how right the reality of the situation is. I say this not to make anybody angry, because I know that here on Phatmass there are a lot of people with family in the military, and who respect the military greatly. However, I do have serious moral reservations about the armed conflicts we're seeing today, and I think it's something serious Catholics need to think very frankly about.
[/quote]

The guy I mention is going to be ordained a deacon in a year, if that gives you any indication. Yes, I totally agree with you.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308805512' post='2257606']
If this statement is true, do you think that women are to emotional for this task?
[/quote]


After this and a bunch of other posts, ive noticed you dont seem to place a lot of faith in your own gender.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308866997' post='2257823']
Honest question, not trying to start a flamewar: do you believe that the American military is working exclusively and effectively for the greater good everywhere in which it is currently operating?
[/quote]

well, to the question, no they most certainly are not.

but further, the OP is a canadian, like you and me, so perhaps a better question is about the canadian military?

[MithLuin]

If one wants to engage in humanitarian efforts and 'save the world', why join the military (for which such efforts are a secondary [not primary] function.) I mean, yes, you can travel the world and do a lot of good as part of the military (American or Canadian), but that's not generally [i]why[/i] troops are deployed.

There are organizations where such projects are the primary focus. Why not join one?

Check out [url=http://www.vsocan.org/?setlang=/]VSO Canada[/url] for an alternative to the Peace Corps, or the many Catholic volunteer organizations that can be found at the [url=https://www.catholicvolunteernetwork.org/volunteers/search.php]CNVS Response directory[/url] or the [url=http://www.pallotticenter.org/index.php?m=cd]Pallotti Center's Connections Directory[/url]. Yes, these two are American-based, but many have opportunities for Canadians listed, or can get you connected to people who do.

Do not let 'volunteer' fool you - your basic needs and a stipend will be provided. You won't be saving up any money for later, but you *can* put this on your resume. You'll want a college degree and/or some work experience before doing a long term service mission, but anyone can do something short term (ie, summer).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1308874276' post='2257882']
well, to the question, no they most certainly are not.

but further, the OP is a canadian, like you and me, so perhaps a better question is about the canadian military?
[/quote]
I tend to assume that the Canadian military is essentially just a smaller version of the American military that does less worldwide. I'm sure there are flaws with that perspective, but that's just my superficial view of it.

[xSilverPhinx]

Have you considered other alternatives such as doctors without borders or that sort of aid group?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308846181' post='2257709']




Women can join the Marines, [b]In Persona Christe[/b]. They just can't be in infantry. So, if you want to serve your country, go ahead! You probably won't 'see action', but so what? [/quote]
This is not exactly true. Women were attached to the infantry on the front lines in Iraq, went on raids, and did security patrols, have received the Purple Heart for action in combat situations, and 23 of them died.
They are the [i]Lionesses[/i], ostensibly sent in to deal with the women and children, but in fact saw combat with their male counterparts.

[MithLuin]

Marines or Army?

The Lionesses were [url=http://www.womensmemorial.org/News/Lioness.html]US Army soldiers[/url], not Marines.

Typically, a female's assignment will be a support role, not infantry, though that does not mean she won't be in a convoy that will get attacked. That support role [i]can[/i] include searching people/ guard duty.

Edited June 24, 2011 by MithLuin

[AudreyGrace]

[img]http://cd4sell.com/PRODUCTS/mulan-DVDcover.jpg[/img]


haha no, but seriously though...
[img]http://saints.sqpn.com/wp-content/gallery/saint-joan-of-arc/saint-joan-of-arc-03.jpg[/img]

St. Joan of Arc

[Mr.Cat]

Somehow I will make a man out of you.

[vee]

Since Canada's Navy looks basically like this no wonder we have women soldiers. We need all the help we can get.

[img]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224143_8468959725_541214725_321104_8185_n.jpg[/img]

[dominicansoul]

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1308803454' post='2257567']
My daughter weighs 115 lbs and carries a pack that weighs 50+ lbs, it takes a hell of a toll on her back and knees but she endures.
[/quote]

It's tough on 6 foot tall men who weigh close to 200 lbs, I can imagine how it must be for a woman. I've had to pick up and move around my husband's gear. I wouldn't want to carry it around all the time like female soldiers and Marines have to.

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1308803599' post='2257571']
Soldiers are professional killers, they pull a trigger or threaten the same. Why not women?
[/quote]

Well, to be fair, there's a little more to the job than that.

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308888700' post='2257967']
Marines or Army?

The Lionesses were [url=http://www.womensmemorial.org/News/Lioness.html]US Army soldiers[/url], not Marines.

Typically, a female's assignment will be a support role, not infantry, though that does not mean she won't be in a convoy that will get attacked. That support role [i]can[/i] include searching people/ guard duty.
[/quote]

I think the Lioness women weren't actually expecting to see as much combat as they did. I remember listening to them on NPR a couple years ago, they were called in on those patrols because of the religious and cultural rules--the male soldiers couldn't search the women, etc., so they brought women soldiers in to do the job.

There are a few combat arms jobs women are allowed to hold now, but I honestly don't believe that foot-patrol-infantry is ideal for a woman. I'm not against women in the military at all, but there are undeniable differences between men and women; our strengths and weaknesses are different. We need to play on those strengths. All soldiers are going to learn the same basic stuff, but a female soldier who is, for example, doing a computer related job, isn't going to have as much field training as a man who is in the infantry. (I can say this with confidence because my husband has worked both of those jobs.) I'm not poo-pooing women in the military, I'm just trying to have a realistic view of where most of us women would fit best into the military. For the vast majority of us, I don't think it's the front lines.

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308866997' post='2257823']
Honest question, not trying to start a flamewar: do you believe that the American military is working exclusively and effectively for the greater good everywhere in which it is currently operating?
[/quote]

Nope,
BUt i do think that they all have their countries so called best interests at heart.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308919666' post='2258048']
Nope,
BUt i do think that they all have their countries so called best interests at heart.
[/quote]
Is intention enough?

[MIKolbe]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions....

[Cam42]

I think that if a woman wants to fight on the front lines, let her. No kidding. If she wants to serve her country that way, so be it. The only thing I expect as a citizen of said country is that she be able to fulfill all the roles and expectations which are asked of her. If she cannot, then she has no place on the front line. If she can, ooh-rah.

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308929006' post='2258097']
I think that if a woman wants to fight on the front lines, let her. No kidding. If she wants to serve her country that way, so be it. The only thing I expect as a citizen of said country is that she be able to fulfill all the roles and expectations which are asked of her. If she cannot, then she has no place on the front line. If she can, ooh-rah.
[/quote]

You made me lol.. haha

As for people in this debate, I am really talking about the Canadian Military, not the American. Their is a difference. I actually find that Canadians are more open to women in the military than that of the American troops. I am still debating with myself if it could be a potential distraction and jeapardy to have women on the front lines. As for men, they are wired to be protectors, at least when you are with a bunch of guys you dont have to worry about protecting them in that *manly* way. Its more of a brotherhood thing.

[Cam42]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308930814' post='2258107']
You made me lol.. haha

As for people in this debate, I am really talking about the Canadian Military, not the American. Their is a difference. I actually find that Canadians are more open to women in the military than that of the American troops. I am still debating with myself if it could be a potential distraction and jeapardy to have women on the front lines. As for men, they are wired to be protectors, at least when you are with a bunch of guys you dont have to worry about protecting them in that *manly* way. Its more of a brotherhood thing.
[/quote]

So....you're saying this is a bro-mance thing....much like what jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) and I have?