Women Soldiers

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308781053' post='2257423']
Since I was little i have always had respect for the Canadain Soldiers who serve our country. I know that they have had their problems, but I still think that CF is really respectable.

But,
If I was a man in Infantry and had to count on women on the front lines. Well I would prefer a tobacco's chewing jerk, to a femenazi.

I personally think that if you are going to be a woman in the Canadian Forces, be something like a Nurse, Doctor, Med Tech, Lab Tech, or social worker. And leave the leadership and crazy artillery to the guys. Sometimes I think that women like these tend to attract to much attention to themselves. Sure they want to be just like the guys, but really, they are women.

So if their is a woman out their, take into consideration that a well balanced workspace (equal amounts of men and women) is good if you are considering a military carreer.

Or just leave it up to the men :D


BTW
I love guns, I love war, and I am all for the equality of women. I guess I just get so pissed off when people are talking about how horrible it is to have women soldiers. I am not a femenist, but I do know that in emergency situations, it should not really matter who you are fighting with. As long as they know their duty in the field, all should go well. I totally did not mean to make this offensive in any way. I just know how pissed all my brothers get when I beat them at sports (more like halo...) and how I can be a distraction when I play gruesome manly games (dont worry I dont dress offensively, but a woman did tell me that I can serve as a distraction....).
[/quote]


Post Script Edit:
Saying I love war was a wrong choice of words (I was in a hurry, so stop Trolling me! :D).
I really meant to say that I was attracted to duty with honour.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308800656' post='2257534']
Perhaps, but you have to recall that combat involves living in pretty primitive conditions for long stretches of time. Wanting the group to be single sex doesn't have to be about physical criteria, it can also be about practical considerations.
[/quote]

What exactly do you mean by "primitive conditions for long stretches of time"? Isolated from all others besides the unit?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308795385' post='2257496']
Brute strength means a lot in an combat unit. Combat soldiers carry a lot of weight on their person. There's a reason so many have serious back and knee problems.
[/quote]
My daughter weighs 115 lbs and carries a pack that weighs 50+ lbs, it takes a hell of a toll on her back and knees but she endures.

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308803242' post='2257563']
What exactly do you mean by "primitive conditions for long stretches of time"? Isolated from all others besides the unit?
[/quote]

I know like if their are any sexual relations between comrades it is strictly forbidden on mission, and they get penalized for it. Was that what he was implying?

[Mr.Cat]

Soldiers are professional killers, they pull a trigger or threaten the same. Why not women?

Edited June 23, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308801486' post='2257541']
Aight as for loving war I meant it not in a Halo way or in any other way other than this:
I guess that I sort of am attracted to the whole *duty with honour* thing. I meant it to be in the sense that I would do everything in my power to protect my country, and my family. I also am really attracted to the history of war. I would prefer a world without war, but that is not going to happen. I do not romaticise war, nor do I try to push it away.

I am still having a really hard time writing my idea's down, I have always had a horrible time truly expressing my thoughts. And I think that the Debate table does help a little bit.[/quote]


I also like the history of war (especially strategem), but not war. It's something interesting to watch documentaries about or read about.

[quote]As for physical requirements for women. Truthfully we are not ever going to be built like men. I am not saying that we cant be infantry soldiers or firefighters, but answer me this: would you prefer to be carried by a man out of a flaming building, or a woman?

Truthfully I would feel safer with a guy.

Oh and this debate is sort of me trying to figure out if I want to join the Canadian Forces.[/quote]

I would prefer whoever is better able to do the job. Gender is secondary.

First scene:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JerVrbLldXw[/media]

I'd bet that quite a few women could outdo him there...

Edited June 23, 2011 by xSilverPhinx

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1308803599' post='2257571']
Soldiers are professional killers, they pull a trigger or threaten the same. Why not women?
[/quote]

If this statement is true, do you think that women are to emotional for this task?

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308805512' post='2257606']If this statement is true, do you think that women are to emotional for this task?[/quote]Considering the variations of what we classify as mental illness returning from war, I doubt that humans are up to the task at all. So no...

[MithLuin]

Oh, no worries about not quite finding the words to express yourself. 'Duty with honour' is a much better concept than 'I love war!'

But if you want to be poetic about it, try this:

[quote]War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

~ Faramir, [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i][/quote]


By primitive conditions I meant lack of privacy. For instance...

My brother-in-law is in the infantry of the US Marines. On his last tour in Afghanistan, he spent 6 moths isolated with just his group, sure. But more than that...they were living under very primitive conditions. No roof. No interior walls. No furniture. No running water. No bathrooms. Electricity only when the generator was running. Basically, it was a large group of guys living within 4 walls with some sandbags getting shot at/ going on patrol every day and using buckets for their toilet needs with supplies being airlifted in since the roads were too hazardous to send a convoy. Oh, and it's 100 degrees/no shade.

I wasn't suggesting that sexual tension would be a major problem, though of course the isolation tends to add to that. I was more pointing out that such conditions are difficult enough as is with it being a single sex environment.

[xSilverPhinx]

Kudos for the LOTR quote, especially since Tolkien was a WW2 vet and knew what he was talking about.

[4588686]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308796693' post='2257507']
Ok I give up. I officially don't remember why you annoyed me before. I'm just going to believe that I've enjoyed your posts since day one.
[/quote]


I agree that it's hard to remember why we started fighting. But if you think I will be soon forgetting the ugly, slanderous things you said during the course of those arguments about my porcelain unicorn collection you are sadly mistaken.




Why do you hate them so?

[img]http://www.aristocraticpet.com/images/7aa44.jpg[/img]

Edited June 23, 2011 by Hasan

[xSilverPhinx]

[img]http://www.aristocraticpet.com/images/7aa44.jpg[/img]




*tilts head to the left*



*tilts head to the right*


I'm no art critic but...

...don't like. Must be that little flower next to its left foreleg.

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308805721' post='2257610']
Oh, no worries about not quite finding the words to express yourself. 'Duty with honour' is a much better concept than 'I love war!'

But if you want to be poetic about it, try this:




By primitive conditions I meant lack of privacy. For instance...

My brother-in-law is in the infantry of the US Marines. On his last tour in Afghanistan, he spent 6 moths isolated with just his group, sure. But more than that...they were living under very primitive conditions. No roof. No interior walls. No furniture. No running water. No bathrooms. Electricity only when the generator was running. Basically, it was a large group of guys living within 4 walls with some sandbags getting shot at/ going on patrol every day and using buckets for their toilet needs with supplies being airlifted in since the roads were too hazardous to send a convoy. Oh, and it's 100 degrees/no shade.

I wasn't suggesting that sexual tension would be a major problem, though of course the isolation tends to add to that. I was more pointing out that such conditions are difficult enough as is with it being a single sex environment.
[/quote]


Fortunately women are not marines ahahah

So do you sort of agree that women should be more behind the scenes and not in a mission capacity? I know that when they send a women they usually send 3 or 4 of them to equal it out. But this is still a trying question for me. I have two friends who are US marines, and one friend who is in the reserve force in Canada. They all basically love what they do. One of them is going through extensive training, and if he fails he basically becomes a grunt and is sent to wherever it is the worst. The other never did specialized training and has already been to Afhganistan.

All in all I respect what these people try to do for our country. I know that sometimes they really mess it up, but most of them have their countries interest at heart.

Oh and nice job quoting Faramir there. He was one of my favorite LOTR characters (other then Sam).

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308804063' post='2257587']
I also like the history of war (especially strategem), but not war. It's something interesting to watch documentaries about or read about.



I would prefer whoever is better able to do the job. Gender is secondary.

First scene:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JerVrbLldXw[/media]

I'd bet that quite a few women could outdo him there...
[/quote]

I am sure a few women could :D But not after... hahah

[MithLuin]

[quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308806468' post='2257613']
Kudos for the LOTR quote, especially since Tolkien was a WW2 vet and knew what he was talking about.
[/quote]

Thanks! World War I, actually. He was in the trenches in the Somme. There are tearstains on the handwritten pages describing the Dead Marshes, suggesting he was very much drawing from his own experiences in describing war....as well as of course the heroic traditions from literature. It's a good, grounded blend he came up with, but he has said that Faramir expresses his own thoughts and opinions more than most of the other characters. John Garth's 'Tolkien and the Great War' is apparently an excellent resource, though I have not read it.

His sons were in WWII. One was in the RAF in South Africa, IIRC.



Women can join the Marines, [b]In Persona Christe[/b]. They just can't be in infantry. Basically, I don't have a strong opinion about women in the military, and never had any desire to join myself. My thought was merely that there's probably reasons beyond physical limitations for barring women from combat positions, and that the military command shouldn't be forced to change that. So, if you want to serve your country, go ahead! You probably won't 'see action', but so what? Doesn't mean you won't be shipped off to Kuwait or Qatar or Afghanistan. You'd still be part of the military, serving your country and supporting whatever missions we're involved in.

[xSilverPhinx]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308846181' post='2257709']
Thanks! World War I, actually. He was in the trenches in the Somme. There are tearstains on the handwritten pages describing the Dead Marshes, suggesting he was very much drawing from his own experiences in describing war....as well as of course the heroic traditions from literature. It's a good, grounded blend he came up with, but he has said that Faramir expresses his own thoughts and opinions more than most of the other characters. John Garth's 'Tolkien and the Great War' is apparently an excellent resource, though I have not read it.

His sons were in WWII. One was in the RAF in South Africa, IIRC. [/quote]

Whoops! I stand corrected. My LOTR trivia is a bit rusted...

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308846181' post='2257709']
Women can join the Marines, [b]In Persona Christe[/b]. They just can't be in infantry. Basically, I don't have a strong opinion about women in the military, and never had any desire to join myself. My thought was merely that there's probably reasons beyond physical limitations for barring women from combat positions, and that the military command shouldn't be forced to change that. So, if you want to serve your country, go ahead! You probably won't 'see action', but so what? Doesn't mean you won't be shipped off to Kuwait or Qatar or Afghanistan. You'd still be part of the military, serving your country and supporting whatever missions we're involved in.
[/quote]



Yep, I like more of the missionary relief side. I have been considering a Medical carreer within the forces. Because you get to handle a lot of amesome weapons, I would not have to pay for my education, and I would have a secure job. I also have a desire to help people within the army. I know that is such a wierd attraction, but I have had it since i was quite little.

Edited June 23, 2011 by InPersonaChriste

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308861703' post='2257787']
I also have this thought about reaching people in the world easier through the military (strange I know).
[/quote]
What do you mean by that?

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308861877' post='2257788']
What do you mean by that?
[/quote]



I know that their are already missionaries, but I really appreciate the work efforts of the military, how they go into remote area's to bring food and medical security for people. I just think that its good they go on those missions as well as the ones that keep our governments interests at heart.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308866849' post='2257820']
I know that their are already missionaries, but I really appreciate the work efforts of the military, how they go into remote area's to bring food and medical security for people. I just think that its good they go on those missions as well as the ones that keep our governments interests at heart.
[/quote]
Honest question, not trying to start a flamewar: do you believe that the American military is working exclusively and effectively for the greater good everywhere in which it is currently operating?