Nihil Obstat Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 You will see, once the FSSPX is regularized, that their seminaries will remain just as full. It is quite likely, in fact, that they get even more applicants. Their charism is not disobedience. Unfortunately they are in a state of such right now, but this is temporary, and it will be resolved. As I showed in the past, they continue to pledge their loyalty to the Church, and that is why they work with Rome in the doctrinal talks with only the best of intentions- as family members resolving a dispute- not as a criminal speaking to law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Cam just told me that SSPX seminarians receive no degrees because, "The priesthood traditionally wasn't a degree specific path of education. There were requisites academically to be ordained, but any advanced degrees which included a bachelor's, were attained after ordination." This link contains their academic program. [url="http://www.sspxseminary.org/seminary-life/academic-program.html"]http://www.sspxseminary.org/seminary-life/academic-program.html[/url] Incidentally, it looks like a huge amount of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310048076' post='2263982'] Cam just told me that SSPX seminarians receive no degrees... [/quote] Well no wonder the high numbers. I heard the numbers for this ordination are even higher than the SSPX: [url="http://www.themonastery.org/?destination=ordination&gclid=CNPQ69q276kCFYsd2god-1wKYQ"]Get Ordained Online![/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310047661' post='2263980'] You will see, once the FSSPX is regularized, that their seminaries will remain just as full. It is quite likely, in fact, that they get even more applicants. Their charism is not disobedience. Unfortunately they are in a state of such right now, but this is temporary, and it will be resolved. As I showed in the past, they continue to pledge their loyalty to the Church, and that is why they work with Rome in the doctrinal talks with only the best of intentions- as family members resolving a dispute- not as a criminal speaking to law enforcement. [/quote] how are they pledging their loyality to rome when they are ordaining priest when they were told not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) It is family members resolving a dispute alright. Like a teenager disobeying Mom and refusing to take responsibility for wrong doings while insisting Mom is wrong. Edited July 7, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Doesn't matter why it happened, the ordinations are still illegitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310047661' post='2263980']You will see, once the FSSPX is regularized,[/quote] as far as i understand, that is light-years from happening.[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1310057759' post='2264026'] Doesn't matter why it happened, the ordinations are still illegitimate. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1310048505' post='2263986'] Well no wonder the high numbers. I heard the numbers for this ordination are even higher than the SSPX: [url="http://www.themonastery.org/?destination=ordination&gclid=CNPQ69q276kCFYsd2god-1wKYQ"]Get Ordained Online![/url] [/quote] lulz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Just to clarify something - illegitimate doesn't mean invalid, does it? I'm thinking about the root of the word as "lex" or "legit" which gives us our word "law". Am I correct in deriving from all of this that the sacrament of ordination is valid, but not licit? And isn't that also how the excommunications were incurred in '88? By ordaining in disobedience to Rome? Wouldn't that make these new priests and the ordaining bishop excommunicated, also? Maybe I'm missing something.Also - to clarify my previous question - I realize that the excommunication surrounding the original SSPX members has been lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310047661' post='2263980'] You will see, once the FSSPX is regularized, that their seminaries will remain just as full. It is quite likely, in fact, that they get even more applicants. Their charism is not disobedience. Unfortunately they are in a state of such right now, but this is temporary, and it will be resolved. As I showed in the past, they continue to pledge their loyalty to the Church, and that is why they work with Rome in the doctrinal talks with only the best of intentions- as family members resolving a dispute- not as a criminal speaking to law enforcement. [/quote] [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310053916' post='2264010'] how are they pledging their loyality to rome when they are ordaining priest when they were told not to. [/quote] This seems like a very good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310048076' post='2263982'] Cam just told me that SSPX seminarians receive no degrees because, "The priesthood traditionally wasn't a degree specific path of education. There were requisites academically to be ordained, but any advanced degrees which included a bachelor's, were attained after ordination." This link contains their academic program. [url="http://www.sspxseminary.org/seminary-life/academic-program.html"]http://www.sspxseminary.org/seminary-life/academic-program.html[/url] Incidentally, it looks like a huge amount of fun. [/quote] That does look pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1310060871' post='2264041'] Just to clarify something - illegitimate doesn't mean invalid, does it? I'm thinking about the root of the word as "lex" or "legit" which gives us our word "law". Am I correct in deriving from all of this that the sacrament of ordination is valid, but not licit? And isn't that also how the excommunications were incurred in '88? By ordaining in disobedience to Rome? Wouldn't that make these new priests and the ordaining bishop excommunicated, also? Maybe I'm missing something. Also - to clarify my previous question - I realize that the excommunication surrounding the original SSPX members has been lifted. [/quote] SSPX ordinations are certainly valid. It's just saying that until reconciliation happens they don't rep the Church. [indent]"As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church."[/indent] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The men are ordained, and the ordination 'sticks', as it was bishops with apostolic succession doing the ordaining. However, these priests do not have any place in the Catholic Church, so they cannot licitly minister as priests. They can't say a mass, hear a confession, or witness a marriage in any diocese. Licitly. [The exception would be deathbed confessions and the like, of course, which any priest may hear regardless of whether or not he has his bishop's permission to act as a priest.] I do notice that the description of the SSPX seminary mentions 'power' as the key attribute of the priesthood twice. That is not language you usually hear outside of James' Joyce's [i]A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man[/i]. Sure, it's just the website, but it does make me wonder what they think the priesthood is all about. Should the SSPX become a part of the Catholic Church again (I don't take this as a given, though I do hope they will be reconciled), then I would presume that they would continue to have vocations at a similar level within their community. Their seminary would of course have to be brought into line with current requirements from Rome, so no doubt some revamping would need to be done. (Like teaching what the popes after Pius X had to say!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1310070792' post='2264098'] However, these priests do not have any place in the Catholic Church, so they cannot licitly minister as priests. They can't say a mass, hear a confession, or witness a marriage in any diocese. Licitly. [The exception would be deathbed confessions and the like, of course, which any priest may hear regardless of whether or not he has his bishop's permission to act as a priest.][/quote] Right, in emergency cases such things are licit. The SSPX argument is that the Church is in a chronic emergency state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I just came here to say that I love Pope St. Pius X and that I was born on his feast day! Pope St. Pius X, pray for us and this situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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