Is It A Sin If...

[pinstripes]

is it a sin if you buy a diamond ring when many diamonds are mined in areas of the world where workers are treated unfairly? wouldn't you be paying for that to continue?

[HomeTeamFamily]

i wouldnt think so.....same concept as like would you buy a pair of Nikes even though they have been rumored to have sweatshops?.....IMO as long as its not like extravagant and you arent doing it to perpetuate the industry, it would not be sinful

[nikkan_hanil]

No. Most of the time it is only sin when you know fully what your doing. That goes for mortal sin as well.

[ilovechrist]

i doubt it... we don't know where the bling-bling goes..

[Philippe]

tru dat we need da bling blind from somewhere

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='lifeteener' date='Apr 29 2004, 10:33 PM'] tru dat we need da bling blind from somewhere [/quote]
Do we?

[crusader1234]

first, bling bling could be constrewn as immodesty which is a sin in and of itself

secondly, if you know that these are 'conflict diamonds' and you know that the mining of these diamonds are causing unfair treatment of workers, and you buy them anyways, wouldnt that be full knowledge and deliberate consent? certainly god wouldnt want us enjoying our lives on the backs of others.

this time, its not just the hippy in me. its the christian in me. can you, as a christian, honestly believe that supporting 'conflict diamonds' is a good thing? encouraging this despicable industry where workers are far underpaid and diamonds are marked up beyond comparison?

i think that if you know the diamond is a 'conflict diamond' and you buy it anways thats full knowledge and deliberate consent = mortal sin.

anybody who can provide any reasons it owuld not be aside from the bling bling factor i would encourage to say something.

[quote]as long as its not like extravagant and you arent doing it to perpetuate the industry, it would not be sinful [/quote]
the industry is built on the backs of the people who buy the diamonds. who else would be perpetuating the industry? buying a conflict diamond is a vote against human rights.

[HomeTeamFamily]

[quote]the industry is built on the backs of the people who buy the diamonds. who else would be perpetuating the industry? buying a conflict diamond is a vote against human rights.[/quote]

i was talking about like buying the diamond for the sole purpose of giving profit to the diamond owners.......as opposed to like buying it as a wedding/engagement ring/other purpose

[crusader1234]

well obviously you arent buying it to give profit to the owners. you are buying it because you are too cheap to support proper wages and human rights. nobody buys nike to support child labour and sweatshops, but thats what their dollar ends up funding.

if you buy a conflict diamond, you are saying i dont care that my money is going towards subhuman work standards - i just want to pay a low price.

ITS WRONG. would you buy a necklace from someone for $1000 when it cost them $10 to make if yuo knew the $990 was going to support pro-choice ralleys and abortions for pregnant teens? The fact of the matter is, you know that your money is funding this industry.

buying a wedding ring is supposed to be an act of love, should that act of love be based on a cheap diamond on the backs of africans who are practically slaves? thats hardly an act of love people.

[HomeTeamFamily]

alright then.....show me an industry that pays its workers absolutely fair and equal wages and benefits.......umm yea that doesnt exist

[crusader1234]

Umm yeah they do. Plenty do. Canada has polar bear diamonds, for example. These are mined with both the environment and proper wages in mind. The Ave Maria mutual fund only buys shares in companies which meet standards. These include Harley Davidson, Domino's pizza...

I find it totally hypocritical for people to say they are christian then buy into slave labour! Look at your clothes... Where are they from?

I'm not saying I alwyas buy things im sure are 100% human rights approved, but I do avoid things like Nike. CONFLICT DIAMONDS ARENT "IFFY". They are called "conflict" because they are against human rights.

So at your wedding, or engagement, or whatever - look at your fiance and tell them 'this is a conflict diamond... some black guy getting 25 cents an hour dug this out for you. i could have paid extra for one mined by people who support human rights, but darnit you arent worth it and neither are human rights!'

Violating human rights = bad
Funding inhumane trreament = bad

Knowing you are buying a conflict diamond and doing it anyways = mortal sin.

PLUS... CONFLICT DIAMONDS ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES.

[M.SIGGA]

It's a sin as much as simply being American is a sin. Everything we have comes from someone somewhere being exploited and mistreated to some extent.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Apr 30 2004, 12:27 AM'] Umm yeah they do. Plenty do. Canada has polar bear diamonds, for example. These are mined with both the environment and proper wages in mind. The Ave Maria mutual fund only buys shares in companies which meet standards. These include Harley Davidson, Domino's pizza...

I find it totally hypocritical for people to say they are christian then buy into slave labour! Look at your clothes... Where are they from?

I'm not saying I alwyas buy things im sure are 100% human rights approved, but I do avoid things like Nike. CONFLICT DIAMONDS ARENT "IFFY". They are called "conflict" because they are against human rights.

So at your wedding, or engagement, or whatever - look at your fiance and tell them 'this is a conflict diamond... some black guy getting 25 cents an hour dug this out for you. i could have paid extra for one mined by people who support human rights, but darnit you arent worth it and neither are human rights!'

Violating human rights = bad
Funding inhumane trreament = bad

Knowing you are buying a conflict diamond and doing it anyways = mortal sin.

PLUS... CONFLICT DIAMONDS ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA AND THE UNITED STATES. [/quote]
I agree

[crusader1234]

Amen Jason.

Sigga, don't you think that we should try now, more than ever, to change our ways? The US was built on slavery (i'm from Canada) and your using the fact that you once had slavery as an excuse to continue to promote it? This seems like a questionable thought process to me. Excuses are never good, especially when you are saying 'Well we did this back then so ther'es no point in changing!'

[HomeTeamFamily]

ok ill agree on the diamonds for the sake of moving the discussion along.....what about in an area where coal miners are paid low wages for long and hard hours......would you just not use your lights and electricity because it supports the coal companies???

all im trying to get at is that at what point do you make it a priority to see the background of all the stuff you buy to make sure it hasnt come as a result of human rights violations? i agree with sigga that most of the products we use on a daily basis have come from a low wage worker at some point during manufacturing

[Dave]

If we boycotted everything that came from companies that mistreated its workers or supported immoral causes or organizations, we'd all starve or have to go around naked!

[Livin_the_MASS]

I think the point is if you know it, we as Christians have a duty to look after it and try. You can't just say it's to big of a problem forget about it!

You have to start at some point to start healing the issues!

In the love of Christ
Jason

[HomeTeamFamily]

i agree.....but for the most part, it would be inefficiently laborious (yea you know you like the terminology hehe) to do "background checks" on all the stuff we buy

yes there are certain obvious products that could be avoided more easily than others...ill grant that

edit: back to diamonds....what if in that certain area, "conflict diamonds" are the only thing available?....what would happen then?

Edited April 30, 2004 by lankyswimmer

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='lankyswimmer' date='Apr 30 2004, 12:42 AM'] i agree.....but for the most part, it would be inefficiently laborious (yea you know you like the terminology hehe) to do "background checks" on all the stuff we buy

yes there are certain obvious products that could be avoided more easily than others...ill grant that

edit: back to diamonds....what if in that certain area, "conflict diamonds" are the only thing available?....what would happen then? [/quote]
One step at a time goes a long ways in the long run.

[crusader1234]

Maybe we deserve to starve to death. Should we force others to starve to death so that we can live in a way we are accustomed to?

On the internet there are TONS of lists of companies which are good to buy from and those which are not. It is irresponsible to ignore these lists.

Take Mother Theresa for example. She worked with the poor of Calcutta. When she is made a Saint, do you really want her looking down on you as you support these industries? Textiles, etc?

As for coal miners, I am not sorry for them. I will NOT be sorry for them, until they are making 25 cents an hour. Getting beaten, etc. Sure, it is not a desireable job, but it sure beats starving to death in Ethiopia.

What sort of attitude is it to say that we should not sacrifice our lifestyle so that human rights can be upheld. What would Jesus have to say? Probably he would be disappointed. The Bible is filled with him telling us to be generous of ourselves both mentally, spiritually, and financially.

How selfish must you be, that you would rather have the third world starve so that you can eat out on weekends, buy diamonds for your girlfriend, and wear fancy clothes???

I'm seriously beginning to question all of your Agape (Christian Love).