Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 And then there was the convent in Edmonton, where we had a whole different 'work habit' that we had to change into every time we started our official 'work' (which was knitting on knitting machines) and then change back for the Office or anything else. We didn't just change veils - we changed our whole outfit!!! I have never heard of any other Carmel doing this... but then these nuns were founded in Macau - where the temps were hotter and more humid than Perth!!
the171 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319363927' post='2325559'] And then there was the convent in Edmonton, where we had a whole different 'work habit' that we had to change into every time we started our official 'work' (which was knitting on knitting machines) and then change back for the Office or anything else. We didn't just change veils - we changed our whole outfit!!! I have never heard of any other Carmel doing this... but then these nuns were founded in Macau - where the temps were hotter and more humid than Perth!! [/quote] Louisiana Carmels do this. Only because it is so darn humid.
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='the171' timestamp='1319366018' post='2325572'] Louisiana Carmels do this. Only because it is so darn humid. [/quote] This just goes to show why some had to change to a modified habit. In Perth, it isn't humid - it is desert dry, but temps in the summer are over a hundred for days on end... and near enough on other days not to make a difference. It was the only place I didn't wear socks! I have to say that I don't understand why Edmonton still does the change of habit thing though since it was 40 below (Celsius) there and indoors the temps were controlled by central air -- and they already had a modified habit! Edited October 23, 2011 by nunsense
the171 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 They had to modify in LA. But if I enter Laffy, I would like to request full.
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1319366734' post='2325574'] They had to modify in LA. But if I enter Laffy, I would like to request full. [/quote] You might find that by the time you get to clothing, you want to be like the other sisters, just to feel a part of the community. In Perth, a few of the older sisters didn't want to make the change so they still wore the old habit, but most new sisters entered thinking they would choose the old one but by the time they got to clothing they felt more of a sense of unity by matching the majority of the community. It is a tough choice to make.
OnlySunshine Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1319366734' post='2325574'] They had to modify in LA. But if I enter Laffy, I would like to request full. [/quote] I never realized that you got to choose in some communities. I think Lafayette's current habit is really tasteful.
the171 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1319367038' post='2325578'] I never realized that you got to choose in some communities. I think Lafayette's current habit is really tasteful. [/quote] Technically, you can request with any community. All the sisters, currently wear the modified, but I would like to wear the full. If I can't it's ok. but it'd be AMAZE-CAKE if i could.
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I have to apologise for an error in 'putting on the habit' - either due to old age and bad memory or extreme tiredness.... Not that it really matters here but the toque goes on after the habit and before the scapular - it is the white bit that you can see under the scapular front and back (and I remember having trouble reaching up behind my back to pull the toque down when it would bunch up. The straight pin on the shoulder of the scapular would go through the scapular first, then the toque, then the habit -- and that is how the sister accidently stuck the pin into my skin - trying to get it through so many layers of fabric. It has been a long time since I wore the habit, so it was interesting trying to remember it all again... must go off to bed now before I remember something else I got wrong
Feankie Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 It almost sounds as if you'd have to be a mechanical engineer to either get dressed or "tuck-up" ! How long did it take you to master the whole process?
faithcecelia Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1319378267' post='2325639'] It almost sounds as if you'd have to be a mechanical engineer to either get dressed or "tuck-up" ! How long did it take you to master the whole process? [/quote] About a day for most of it, maybe 3 days to put the veil straight without a mirror, but by nature of my work I got extra practise getting in and out of it to change into smocks! The hardest bit was pinning the veil to the band, which was done before you put it on, but it was also a lovely job to do and one I miss terribly.
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1319378267' post='2325639'] It almost sounds as if you'd have to be a mechanical engineer to either get dressed or "tuck-up" ! How long did it take you to master the whole process? [/quote] For the whole first week after clothing, the habit sister would come to 'our' cell in the morning to help me get dressed. At first she would also help pin on the veil, but then she started asking me to try it for myself because when she wasn't there I would have to do it. She also came again at the end of the day (I had early nights the whole first week because the weight of the habit was heavy and made one tired - took getting used to carrying it around all day) and helped me to undress. The habit had to be folded and put away in a specific way. By the end of three days I was okay about getting undressed, but I did appreciate the help for the first week, and the earlier nights.
Aya Sophia Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 Hadn't thought about there being assistance - of course there would be. There was plenty of all kinds in the postulancy. In fact, I remember one Sister saying that, in her day, there was, ahem, too much of it. She often found herself fleeing to the furthest corners of the garden to escape her Angel who was always breathing beneficently down her neck! What about prayers, putting on or taking off the habit? At KE, at the matraque you kneel up on your bed and say a certain prayer while putting on the first piece of the habit, although the prayer is not associated with that piece or any particular piece of the habit or the act of putting it on - it is specifically to start the day on your knees and with a prayer.
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319379435' post='2325644'] Hadn't thought about there being assistance - of course there would be. There was plenty of all kinds in the postulancy. In fact, I remember one Sister saying that, in her day, there was, ahem, too much of it. She often found herself fleeing to the furthest corners of the garden to escape her Angel who was always breathing beneficently down her neck! What about prayers, putting on or taking off the habit? At KE, at the matraque you kneel up on your bed and say a certain prayer while putting on the first piece of the habit, although the prayer is not associated with that piece or any particular piece of the habit or the act of putting it on - it is specifically to start the day on your knees and with a prayer. [/quote] I hear ya! My angel used to drive me crazy too - a little oversolicitous but I knew she had a good heart and meant well. I think one of the hardest things about postulancy is being observed all the time by everyone - self-conscious making! I had to learn how to ignore everyone (in a nice way) so I didn't feel like a bug under a glass. As for KE customs - they have a little book called the Paper of Extractions as you recall Aya - over 300 little rules and customs to follow. We had to read from this every day as well as from the Rule and Constitutions. WV had a similar morning prayer upon arising but it must have been one introduced by the French foundress because they didn't have it in either Edmonton (a Belgian foundation originally) or Australia (which was also French but a different foundress). Edited October 23, 2011 by nunsense
brandelynmarie Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I think this has been a most useful thread with the rubrics & customs of habit wearing in different communities. It gives many of us an idea of what we may have to deal with...
Nunsense Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1319379969' post='2325647'] I think this has been a most useful thread with the rubrics & customs of habit wearing in different communities. It gives many of us an idea of what we may have to deal with... [/quote] And that's only Carmelites - I would love to hear from all the other communities too - I hear the Visitation have over a dozen straight pins they use. I am not sure if these are all in the veil or used in other places around the habit. Their veil and headpiece seem very complicated to me!
brandelynmarie Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319316225' post='2325278'] razzle dazzle, thanks! Whoa, when I typed c-o-o-l it posted it as razzle dazzle, hm... [/quote] Now you are catching on . I am not certain who is totally responsible for the philters, but they do seem to have a wonderful sense of humor. For example, c.heese=coagulated milk, I know this. How many philters do we have on here anyways? Edited October 23, 2011 by brandelynmarie
the171 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319366929' post='2325577'] You might find that by the time you get to clothing, you want to be like the other sisters, just to feel a part of the community. In Perth, a few of the older sisters didn't want to make the change so they still wore the old habit, but most new sisters entered thinking they would choose the old one but by the time they got to clothing they felt more of a sense of unity by matching the majority of the community. It is a tough choice to make. [/quote] Just read this. haha sorry. This makes sense. It will probably be the case. Might not be. Most likely though. I love to hear from people who have actually lived the life.
Aya Sophia Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319379802' post='2325645'] As for KE customs - they have a little book called the Paper of Extractions as you recall Aya - over 300 little rules and customs to follow. We had to read from this every day as well as from the Rule and Constitutions. [/quote] Probably just a typo but it's "Exactions" rather than "Extractions" - to be exact!!! Hard not to feed the inner Jansenist with a title like that - I wonder what it's called in Spanish Carmels? In the Benedicines it was called "The Customary." Don't remember if the habit is covered in the Paper of Exacs although it must be as, what isn't??? Edited October 23, 2011 by Aya Sophia
Chiara Francesco Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319380143' post='2325648'] And that's only Carmelites - I would love to hear from all the other communities too - I hear the Visitation have over a dozen straight pins they use. I am not sure if these are all in the veil or used in other places around the habit. Their veil and headpiece seem very complicated to me! [/quote] As far as I know, only Tyringham Visitation uses that many pins. A few women I know who went to other full-habited Visitations said they didn't use that many pins. Also, the Visitation sisters use "The Spiritual Directory" written by St. Francis de Sales and given to them to form the day - besides the rule and constitutions. I've read the slightly modified Spiritual Directory available for lay people. This site of Salesian Oblates have a great explanation of the Profession Cross the Visitation nuns and Oblates wear: http://www.oblates.us/about-oblates/profession-cross/ And a copy of the Spiritual Directory they use (taken from the nuns' version): http://www.oblates.us/about-oblates/spiritual-directory/ Edited October 23, 2011 by Chiara Francesco
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) I'm overwhelmed as I read this very detailed description of the Carmelite habit. That sure seems like a lot of clothes (as I sit here in underwear and a long T-shirt). Is that standard for cloistered nuns? Or are other Order's habits' simpler? And, what about cloistered versus Active? Are their habits less "complex?" I only sort of understand the complexity of the habit. I can see wanting to "dress up" for your bridegroom. But the whole thing just doesn't seem very efficient--it's a lot of cloth. A lot of cloth to buy in the first place, then mend. And, I compare it to the men. Aren't their habits simpler? Or maybe not, because when those who are priest celebrate communion, they have to add another couple of layers. But, I think of the Trappist monks who wear work clothes during the day--jeans and work shirts, etc.--then have a simple hooded habit that they put over their work clothes when they come in from work for the Office. To me, at least, they seem no less devoted to Christ, and no less holy than women in complex habits. I'm NOT suggesting lay clothes for women in religious Orders (except perhaps for postulants), but at first glance, all the details of the Carmelite habit don't make sense to me. Note: I am NOT being insulting. People who know me know that I ask questions like this because I'm genuinely interested in an answer, and WANT to understand. Plus, I am going in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and it is just me who is clueless. Edited October 23, 2011 by IgnatiusofLoyola
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