Carmelite Habit

[faithcecelia]

It was described to me as you get dressed, and then you pop the habit on top! You can make it wordy as you want, but ultimately even all these clothes take less than 5mins to get on once you have done it often enough, and it saves on washing too as the havits are washed so rarely, and it doesn't matter how scruffy the under layers get!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319385554' post='2325682']

Probably just a typo but it's "Exactions" rather than "Extractions" - to be exact!!! Hard not to feed the inner Jansenist with a title like that - I wonder what it's called in Spanish Carmels? In the Benedicines it was called "The Customary." Don't remember if the habit is covered in the Paper of Exacs although it must be as, what isn't???
[/quote]

Yeah, it was a typo and I changed it - but you probably read it before I did. Quick! The Paper of Exactions did not have a separate section for the habit but there were little instructions throughout it. I remember one about the sisters not taking off their upper veil except when working or sweeping etc.


[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1319411927' post='2325874']
It was described to me as you get dressed, and then you pop the habit on top! You can make it wordy as you want, but ultimately even all these clothes take less than 5mins to get on once you have done it often enough, and it saves on washing too as the havits are washed so rarely, and it doesn't matter how scruffy the under layers get!
[/quote]

At WV, it took a little longer to get dressed. The first week it took nearly the whole half hour between rising and Mental Prayer in the choir, but as I got used to it, I got the time down to 15 minutes. I think the toque and pinning the veils probably took up a little more time than the modified veil did.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319412996' post='2325887']




At WV, it took a little longer to get dressed. The first week it took nearly the whole half hour between rising and Mental Prayer in the choir, but as I got used to it, I got the time down to 15 minutes. I think the toque and pinning the veils probably took up a little more time than the modified veil did.
[/quote]

You may be right, but also I think the number of times you do it helps - I changed out of mine almost every morning and half my afternoons for my work, I was also clothed for a year and the longer you are doing something the more natural it becomes, it probably took 4mths or so to get it down to 5mins.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1319411787' post='2325872']
I'm overwhelmed as I read this very detailed description of the Carmelite habit. That sure seems like a lot of clothes (as I sit here in underwear and a long T-shirt).

I'm NOT suggesting lay clothes for women in religious Orders (except perhaps for postulants), but at first glance, all the details of the Carmelite habit don't make sense to me. Note: I am NOT being insulting. People who know me know that I ask questions like this because I'm genuinely interested in an answer, and WANT to understand. Plus, I am going in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and it is just me who is clueless.
[/quote]


Iggy, great questions! As you point out, all communities are different in their choice of clothing. I think that the ones who choose to keep a very 'old fashioned' habit do so because it still works for them. They don't have to grab a shower, pop on their clothes and disappear out the door to work. They have a very structured and well ordered life that takes into account the amount of time required to get into the habit and out of it again. At WV, we didn't do the 'quick changes' that faith talks about in her post. And they don't do the change into work habits like at Edmonton either. At those places they wear a modified habit that takes less time to put on.

Yes, at WV it does take about 15 minutes to get into the habit and probably 5-10 to get out of it and put it all away properly - the sisters who were at WV for years told me this is the minimum required. But that time is allowed for in the schedule. It is a slightly more complex habit than many of the Carmels in the UK. KE still has the full habit and toque (they even have a longer toque than WV) and so does St Helen's. Apart from these two, I think most of the UK Carmels have switched to at least a modified veil.

Speaking as someone who has worn the full habit, and a work habit at Edmonton (with veil), I prefer the full one, and in England's very cold climate (and the choir isn't always heated, especially from May to Oct), kneeling on those cold floorboards, it is so nice to have the extra padding underneath and the warmth on top, especially the headpiece - no drafts getting down the neck! In Perth, during the winter, we wore scarves in choir on our necks because we had the modified veil and our necks were exposed. I prefer the toque.

But then there are so many choices when choosing a community - if the cumbersome of a full habit bothers someone, then they can look elsewhere! But I don't think most people choose a community specifically because of a habit - or at least I hope not.

[Aya Sophia]

I have had close contact over the last couple of years with Carmelite and Visitandine (live-ins with the latter) communities. Both have the full, traditional habits of their Orders but each fits their charism perfectly. The Carmelites are simple, down to earth (literally - they are often on the floor, prostrating, kneeling, sitting on a very low prayer stool, etc.) and even a bit rough and the fabric, the cut, the hang of the habit all fit this ethos perfectly. The Visitandines, on the other hand, are gentle and more refined - they don't "knock about" much. Their habit has a more subtle cut to it and is worn carefully by the Sisters. They also seem to have more developed traditions and customs regarding the habit than do the Carmelites. So, both have full traditional habits but their design and use are very different.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319419448' post='2325949']
I have had close contact over the last couple of years with Carmelite and Visitandine (live-ins with the latter) communities. Both have the full, traditional habits of their Orders but each fits their charism perfectly. The Carmelites are simple, down to earth (literally - they are often on the floor, prostrating, kneeling, sitting on a very low prayer stool, etc.) and even a bit rough and the fabric, the cut, the hang of the habit all fit this ethos perfectly. The Visitandines, on the other hand, are gentle and more refined - they don't "knock about" much. Their habit has a more subtle cut to it and is worn carefully by the Sisters. They also seem to have more developed traditions and customs regarding the habit than do the Carmelites. So, both have full traditional habits but their design and use are very different.
[/quote]


Very good point Aya - I thinnk that there is a lot of common sense in the way each community chooses their habit. After all, they did have to review and consider possible changes after Vat 2 and they all made the changes they felt where needed for their own individual needs. And your point about the Visitation makes sense too. I have a friend discerning with them and I always tell her that I couldn't wear their habit! But it was nice to hear that not all the Visitations use as many pins as the ones at Tyringham.....

[Chiara Francesco]

If I remember correctly after reading a bio on St. Jane de Chantal, St. Francis de Sales designed the first habit - and it is NOT the one worn now! - and when St. Jane and the other 2 founding Mothers saw it they sort of said a resounding and in unison, "No no you didn't!" about the habit he picked!

Now I could be a little or a lot off but this is very strong in my memory! It was like a "what does a man know about a habit for woman - use, ease of wearing, etc.- so of course, being the gentle and loving saint and the saint of humility, he acquiesced to the women!

I can't remember what he had in mind off hand now, wish I did! If I remember or can find it I'll post it but not sure if I will.