Determining That Someone Isn't Called?

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1322688561' post='2342847']
It stinks. It does. At first blush, it seems unfair - why not let a person have a go - try it out, really see if it's a fit? But the reality is that communities are in the buisness of discernment; they know a lot about it. And if they *know* a person isn't called, it's a great mercy to come out and say it and spare the person a bigger disaster down the road.
[/quote]

I had a superior who was afraid to hurt people's feelings. It's probably one of the worst qualities a superior can have... you're right when you say that it's merciful for a community to be a honest with a person from the get-go.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1322656478' post='2342605']
Thank you so much for what you shared! Especially about faithcecilia!! Wow!


I'm looking at visiting RSM in May 2012, if they and my relatives are in agreement. I asked Sister if I could get psych exam the same visit to better determine if I'm called.

I'm nervous because Sister still hasn't returned my email. Sister had written earlier within a few days or less before. I hope she doesn't have a problem with me as I told her everything about me and what's going on.

Can anyone tell me what the RSM ask in the psych exam? I understand it's to determine vocation.


Can anyone tell me what Sisters look for in determining if someone seems to have a calling? What qualities or what not?

What does the VD ask to get a feel for the person? Do they tend to ask why you want to be a Sister?
[/quote]

I have to honestly say that this topic makes me a little uncomfortable as a sister. As I read your questions it makes me wonder whether you are trying to discern God's will or whether you are trying to make your will work for you. I don't mean that to sound harsh and I apologize if it is but in charity I think you need to know how this [i]might[/i] sound to someone on the [i]inside - [/i]not so that you can fix it and keep on with your plans but so that you can recognize something in yourself and explore it so that you can come closer to God and to grow in knowledge of yourself... only then should you think about religious life.

As a sister, after reading this thread, it makes me think - what are you going to do with whatever information someone provides about what the sisters are looking for, what questions will they ask, what the psych tests look for? Are you going to try to present yourself in a way that will be attractive to them regardless of your actual personality, likes/dislikes, desires, and thoughts? Are you going to rehearse your answers? If the answers in all honesty, whether you were consciously thinking this way or [i]fell into[/i] this kind of thinking, are yes to those questions it would raise a red flag. Just the questions themselves make me feel a little uneasy.

Your post also makes me think, why aren't you asking the sisters these questions? They are the only ones who can give you the answers to these questions but I think you might realize too that your questions seem more like a checklist of what you have to do to be accepted when in reality - in religious life - they can say no for any reason. There is no syllabus, list of expectations, right answers... its just living and feeling and discerning God's will.

If I'm thinking in the right direction with the above (which I could be entirely wrong and in that case ignore me!) I would really encourage you to stop discerning until you feel that you will be able to live authentically with any answer or no answer to the above questions and many more. Religious life is not only difficult - it is complicated, stressful, and intense living and it is constantly changing. The answer you get today may be different tomorrow.

I will keep you in prayer and I hope that you realize that these words are meant in charity. Again, I could have misread all your intentions and thoughts, and if so, I apologize. The internet is not the best forum for deep conversations and much is lost in this form of communication.

Please know of my prayers for you.

[das8949]

I think what was so beautiful about Faith's story with NH is that she did not contact them regarding her job status or living arrangement, but it was purely chance that her Pioress read this Phorum and happened to see a post Faith made about the situation and even stating that she wanted to leave her entry date in God and the Prioress's hands. She did not want to influence the situation this time around, but have it evolve as it would. That is humility and surrender and in its true form.

My point about equating interviewing with communities as one would an employer is that both Faith in her openness onthe forum reached the eyes of her Prioress. In another post, the person advised against revealing too much in writing. In many cases, there are only so many spaces available each year and in those situations the Vocation Team makes their decisions on what they know about each candidate.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1322696505' post='2342918']

I have to honestly say that this topic makes me a little uncomfortable as a sister. As I read your questions it makes me wonder whether you are trying to discern God's will or whether you are trying to make your will work for you. I don't mean that to sound harsh and I apologize if it is but in charity I think you need to know how this [i]might[/i] sound to someone on the [i]inside - [/i]not so that you can fix it and keep on with your plans but so that you can recognize something in yourself and explore it so that you can come closer to God and to grow in knowledge of yourself... only then should you think about religious life.

As a sister, after reading this thread, it makes me think - what are you going to do with whatever information someone provides about what the sisters are looking for, what questions will they ask, what the psych tests look for? Are you going to try to present yourself in a way that will be attractive to them regardless of your actual personality, likes/dislikes, desires, and thoughts? Are you going to rehearse your answers? If the answers in all honesty, whether you were consciously thinking this way or [i]fell into[/i] this kind of thinking, are yes to those questions it would raise a red flag. Just the questions themselves make me feel a little uneasy.

Your post also makes me think, why aren't you asking the sisters these questions? They are the only ones who can give you the answers to these questions but I think you might realize too that your questions seem more like a checklist of what you have to do to be accepted when in reality - in religious life - they can say no for any reason. There is no syllabus, list of expectations, right answers... its just living and feeling and discerning God's will.

If I'm thinking in the right direction with the above (which I could be entirely wrong and in that case ignore me!) I would really encourage you to stop discerning until you feel that you will be able to live authentically with any answer or no answer to the above questions and many more. Religious life is not only difficult - it is complicated, stressful, and intense living and it is constantly changing. The answer you get today may be different tomorrow.

I will keep you in prayer and I hope that you realize that these words are meant in charity. Again, I could have misread all your intentions and thoughts, and if so, I apologize. The internet is not the best forum for deep conversations and much is lost in this form of communication.

Please know of my prayers for you.
[/quote]

I would say you were a little misguided.

I have ADHD and Dyslexia and is causes me to think poorly on my feet. So, I would like to have time beforehand to pray and delve into how I feel about different questions.

I already said so much in my email to the vd that perhaps Sister doesn't like me or see me as a possibility. I put a lot out there. Maybe the part about needing to live somewhere sounds pushy.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1322702166' post='2342948']

I would say you were a little misguided.

I have ADHD and Dyslexia and is causes me to think poorly on my feet. So, I would like to have time beforehand to pray and delve into how I feel about different questions.

I already said so much in my email to the vd that perhaps Sister doesn't like me or see me as a possibility. I put a lot out there. Maybe the part about needing to live somewhere sounds pushy.
[/quote]

Well I apologize if I was misguided or if I hurt your feelings. It was not my intention at all....

I hope you did still see that I was talking about perceptions and my response was just guided by my honest perception of what you said from the point of view of a religious - it was not meant as a judgment - just a window as to how someone else might respond to your statements.

I don't think what you said about needing to live somewhere sounded [i]pushy[/i] but it [i]could [/i] seem like you are looking for anywhere to find a home. (I don't mean that that is what you are doing... just how things can sometimes be perceived.)

I apologize anyway if I offended you.

Prayers!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1322702166' post='2342948']

I would say you were a little misguided.

I have ADHD and Dyslexia and is causes me to think poorly on my feet. So, I would like to have time beforehand to pray and delve into how I feel about different questions.

I already said so much in my email to the vd that perhaps Sister doesn't like me or see me as a possibility. I put a lot out there. Maybe the part about needing to live somewhere sounds pushy.
[/quote]

JoyfulLife, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I mean absolutely no respect or anything. All I want is to see you happy doing God's will.

If I may, it seems as though you are still jumping ahead. You haven't met the Vocation Director. You don't know what she is going to say about your situation. It may turn out positive, it may turn out negative. The most important thing that you really need to do is relax and let God get in the driver's seat. Regardless of how much you know or don't know about a community, there is still the most important part of discernment -- the community affirming the call. If you don't have that, then you do not have a vocation to their community.

If you truly feel the desire and/or need to visit the community, then by all means, go! But I think it's best that you go with no expectations of whether or not you will find your call. You should go regardless if you are called there or not. Each and every retreat is a learning experience. You have to take them for what they are worth. Believe me, the Vocation Directors can read if you are trying to put on a front (which I'm not saying you are) or you know too much from outside sources. Go with an open heart to God. Do not expect anything. This is how I approached the retreat. I had no idea if they were going to accept me or not. I didn't ask until the very end of the retreat about the medication issue.

Please do not think me insensitive. I have prayed for you and I am still praying for you to find the path God has carved out for you. I am not a spiritual director nor am I a vocation director. I am only telling you what I see displayed here on the forum. I understand what Sister Marie is trying to say because I've been there myself. I wanted too much to be accepted by a community rather than find out if God was calling me there and THEN worry about the rest.

Have you asked your spiritual director about these questions? Does he/she believe that you would be a good fit with this community?

[vee]

"Pick up your cross and follow me, I am the Way the Truth and the Life" One's focus needs to be Christ alone, doing His will, what He wants no matter how much that goes against what WE want. Always look straight at the cross, not religious life, not marriage those are only paths to holiness but holiness is the goal.

[Lil'Monster]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1322706447' post='2342988']
"Pick up your cross and follow me, I am the Way the Truth and the Life" One's focus needs to be Christ alone, doing His will, what He wants no matter how much that goes against what WE want. Always look straight at the cross, not religious life, not marriage those are only paths to holiness but holiness is the goal.
[/quote]


sometimes i fail that.....ok most of the time.....

[vee]

We all fail at that but we hve to remember that things are only paths to holiness and not set them as idols

[Lil'Monster]

someone has to knock some sense in me once in a while!

[vee]

Pray to St Joseph and Mary. This is a great time of year, and yes even situation, to meditate on the nativity. Are you about to give birth at any moment? Or from St Joseph's perspective your wife? Were they not scared? Was the King of kings and Lord of lords not born in a barn? Pray to the Holy Family for there is nothing in their lives that they cannot understand in yours, so they will guide you to where Gods will for you is, even though it my not make sense to you at the time.

Edited December 1, 2011 by vee8

[cmaD2006]

I agree with what vee said at one point -- and I think some of my post in other threads have said it. The focus is really our santification, and if you focus on Christ, and loving Him, and serving Him ... how can you go wrong?

I know what the anxiousness feels like ... the anxiousness of "will they accept me" or "will they LIKE me" or "am I good enough". The honest answer? You don't know. And a community has the freedom to accept, as well as dismissing you even when you're at the point of making final vows. That's truth.

Conversely, YOU have the same freedom. You have the freedom to go forward, to enter postulancy, etc. up until the time of final vows. You can say yes or no up to the end.

Anything and everything can happen ... you can run into very holy and saintly women who will be making a God-centered judgement on whether or not you are called to be a religious in THAT particular community. You can also run into a not-so-holy (read: evil) woman who passes judgement on you and decides that you are NOT going to be part of that community, and will do everything under her power to make sure that you are not successful. And anything inbetween.

Remember Romans 8:28 ... All things work for the good of those who love Him ...

My only suggestion is as I said -- focus on Him. And ask Him to keep moulding, changing, transforming your heart and mind more like His. And to give you a heart ready to accept whatever He permits.

[Lil'Nun]

With respect to all the other posters here. I just want to throw a few of my thoughts into the ring. This is in no means to counter or detract from anything here, I merely mean to add a few thoughts.

I think when it comes to visiting, contacting Convents it is also important to bear in mind that discerning the fit of a community is a two-way process. It is not simply the VD and community deciding you would be a good candidate it is also a matter of you discerning that it is where God wants you to be.

I grew to know a community here in the UK. I thought they were wonderful and they knew my situation and invited me for a weekend. This was my first retreat and of course I was excited and hoped this might be "the convent". Sadly, it was not. They were wonderful and they did invite me to continue visiting and continue the process. The VD said, among other things, that she believed I had a vocation. She also told me they had been praying a novena for new Vocations at the time I applied.

But it just did not feel right for me. I loved the Sisters, the Convent was beautiful but I felt no personal peace there.. I do not know why. I just knew, deep down, this was not the right place for me. I suspect it was because that was not were God wanted me to be, no matter how much I wanted it to be. I would have loved to have been a "fit" there and they would have liked me to continue discerning, but it wasn't the "right" place. It did not feel at all like "home".

I felt awful having to tell the VD that I would no longer be discerning with them.

Hopefully, one day God will lead me to the right place, when and if He wills it.

Ediited because I just can't find all the right words, in the right order, until after my second cup of coffee in the morning.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Lil'Nun

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Lil'Nun' timestamp='1322725514' post='2343104']
With respect to all the other posters here. I just want to throw a few of my thoughts into the ring. This is in no means to counter or detract from anything here, I merely mean to add a few thoughts.

I think when it comes to visiting, contacting Convents it is also important to bear in mind that discerning the fit of a community is a two-way process. It is not simply the VD and community deciding you would be a good candidate it is also a matter of you discerning that it is where God wants you to be.

I grew to know a community here in the UK. I thought they were wonderful and they knew my situation and invited me for a weekend. This was my first retreat and of course I was excited and hoped this might be "the convent". Sadly, it was not. They were wonderful and they did invite me to continue visiting and continue the process. The VD said, among other things, that she believed I had a vocation. She also told me they had been praying a novena for new Vocations at the time I applied.

But it just did not feel right for me. I loved the Sisters, the Convent was beautiful but I felt no personal peace there.. I do not know why. I just knew, deep down, this was not the right place for me.  I suspect it was because that was not were God wanted me to be, no matter how much I wanted it to be. I would have loved to have been a "fit" there and they would have liked me to continue discerning, but it wasn't the "right" place. It did not feel at all like "home".

I felt awful having to tell the VD that I would no longer be discerning with them.

Hopefully, one day God will lead me to the right place, when and if He wills it.
[/quote]I think you make a good point here. The Prioress of the Carmel where I was asked to leave was sure that I had a vocation, just that I wasn't a good fit for their community. I wanted it to fit, like a size nine foot trying to get into a size seven shoe, but now I realise that she was right. It hurts from both sides when there isn't a good fit, so in a way she did me a great favour. They have a new Prioress now but even if she told me I could come back there, I wouldn't want to because I have grown into the same realisation that the previous Prioress had - that it just wasn't where I belonged.Now I am going to spend time with another community, one that seems more sutiable for me culturally, and I am praying that this one will be the 'shoe that fits'. We want so much to be in religious life that sometimes we get impatient with God for not putting us there immediately, but even St Rita was told no in the beginning and went a little crazy for awhile before she was able to get strong enough and learn to live God's love in her life. Finally God did put her in the monastery but it didn't happen overnight. Patience, patience, patience. And Advent is such a good time to learn it!

[AnneLine]

I have been praying and discerning all day about this topic all day, wondering what to say and what not to say. My heart goes out in loving prayer and support for every one of you who is discerning, turned down, entering or is part of a vocations team.

First, a little about me - some of which I said in my first Phatmass post last month. I have 'lurked' on Phatmass for many years, and only chose to join because I felt God drawing me to do so. I am a married woman who is active in a secular order affiliated with one of the mendicant orders, and I am one of the people involved in formation for our Community. Like many others on here, I was in a contemplative-active community for a short while, and discerned with a number of other communities. After long years of longing and searching, I finally accepted that while I wanted religious life, the structure was not right for me, and that it was not what God wanted for me.

I mentioned I am involved in formation for my secular community. In that role I have helped many, many people discern and try their vocations to secular communities and religious life--and if I can help any of you, let me know.

Each vocation choice is perfect, if it connects you closer to the One who pulls at your heart. BUT - I'll be honest; when someone goes in to a religious community, there is always a little pang--and sometimes a good cry--because part of me still longs for religious life, even though I know it is not what God wants for me. It is hard to watch others go in; I will not lie to you.

When I was discerning a wise priest said to me, "I know you want to enter ____. If God wants you in ____, nothing on earth will keep your out; and if God does not want you in ____, nothing on earth will get you in. So be at peace, and trust and listen." The years have shown those to be very wise words... but I didn't say it was easy. There was high tuition for that wisdom.

Thirty years later (yowee!), I can see more of what God had planned… and I am in awe of His Providence toward me and all those with whom I share this journey. Even though I didn’t get what I wanted, He has given me everything I need, and satisfied my desires to belong to God alone in very strange ways! God is the ultimate recycler - He wastes nothing. And...He has allowed me to be a very helpful guide for others because I have strong first-hand experience and practical as well as theoretical knowledge.

I would never have thought that a married woman could have the close relationship with God that one thinks of when considering a cloistered nun or apostolic sister … but God knew better. I didn't know at that point that St. John of the Cross' [i]Living Flame of Love [/i]was written as spiritual direction for a married woman with children!! Somehow I had forgotten that St. Catherine of Siena was a lay woman--a tertiary like me, and I don't believe St Catherine could have done the work she did for God as a religious. As beautiful as religious life is, He could care less about whether the soul He loves is inside or outside of a monastery or convent--all He wants is to be in our hearts. Give Him your heart and He will take it from there.

Someone mentioned St Therese' sister, Leonie Martin - and yes, she is a wonderful patroness for those who keep trying to enter and finally 'make' it. But don't forget that St. Therese's parents, Blesseds Zelie and Louis, ALSO wanted religious life…. and were turned down by superiors--and turned down fairly arbitrarily. The community Zelie wanted to enter turned her down because they had reservations about her because of her overbearing mother. Louis couldn't learn enough Latin to 'make it' in the monastic community he wanted to join. Both must have felt like failures… and they struggled with how they were being called to live out their married lives together, too. But God was 'hovering over the waters' with His wonderful creativity…. and we know what happened with the Martin family! There are so many holy people with similar stories--some married, some single, and some who entered communities after much opposition! No matter WHAT the external structure, whether under vows or not, all who serve God are called to live lives of poverty, chastity and obedience--all Christians are called to a radical trust in His providence, a wholehearted focus on God before all others, and a trustful, obedient following of Christ unto death. The rest are incidentals.

One last thought - as a formation director, I have yet to have seen anyone drawn towards a community or secular vocation without a sincere desire to serve God and God's people. I fully believe that God honors every one of those approaches. Some people may only be called to discern, or to be in religious life for a short time - but none of that time is wasted. Our God never writes us off. If you humbly come to Him and ask Him where to go from here, He will be with you and guide you. The Holy Spirit will guide you and teach you. It won't be painless--following the Crucified One never is! But bring Him that pain; keep your eyes on your Beloved, and you will see Him. This is one married woman who could not imagine being any more His had I had entered a community - and no one is more astonished that I could write this than I am!

Sorry this is so long! Now I must fix lunch for my sleeping husband--the human one, and say good night to my Beloved -- the Divine One!

Blessings!

Edited December 1, 2011 by AnneLine

[Sarah147]

I do feel I want to just visit the community and see what they see about me. (I have to wait for some kind of email response first though.) And possibly the FSE, too. I'm feeling like God will take care of me whether it be in an order, single life, or marriage. I don't know where I would go to live or meet a spouse, etc. but I trust He will show me something. In the meantime, like many mentioned, I have been focusing on loving others as Jesus daily, and helping people.

Now, the order may even say yes but wait, and then God will show me someone to lay my hat, and perhaps they would let me stay in their guesthouse like faithcecelia.

Edited December 1, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[das8949]

This is a website that most of youprobably already know about but If not it could be helpful to assist with discernment [url="http://www.vocationquest.org"]www.vocationquest.org[/url]


Vocation Quest is a site for women discerning a call to become a Catholic Sister.

[b] [/b] I feel [size=2] [size=3]as if God is calling me to something, but I don't know what.[/size][/size]
[size=3] [/size]
[size=3] The idea of religious life keeps coming to mind.[/size]
[size=3] [/size]
[size=3] I enjoy being around sisters and feel at home with them.[/size]

Edited December 1, 2011 by DarleneSteinemann

[dominicansoul]

the more i read vocation station, the more i find myself praying for those who post on it...

Discernment can be a painful process. some of you will be rejected sometimes, because some of you don't belong in a religious community. I know that sounds harsh, but the religious life is not for the faint-hearted. Also, you need to have a certain level of maturity. There is a reason communities have certain requirements. If you dont fit into those requirements, unfortunately, you will not be accepted. I think it is wise to assess the situation before you go through pains visiting and finding yourself growing more attracted to something that is beyond your capability.

At times, you will find yourself frustrated and wondering, "God, what are you doing to me?" It could very well be that God is not calling you to religious life, but inviting you into a more intimate union with Him. Falling in love with God takes risks.....because it requires death to self. Conformation to His will sometimes means turning your life upside down...! But the risk is worth every pain, because in the process, you will find peace...

I pray for all of you, that you will be able to endure the tests of your discernment and come out of it all finding exactly what God wishes for you...

I also pray for those who fight the Will of God and cannot come to accept that He is not calling them into religious life. We humans are a stubborn bunch... i pray for those who seem to be having a hard time accepting that God may not want what they so desperately cling to...

Over all, God is the one in charge and if your call to religious life is authentic, God will see to it that you enter a community regardless of requirements. I was very immature when I entered the first time, felt the sting of rejection and was able to enter a second time with a totally new attitude. I had conformed to His will... I had changed so much since the years of discerning. I spent two wonderful years in the best community in the whole world. And then I had to leave it on my own decision. It was very painful, but because I followed God's will, it was definitely worth it... and I am a whole better person for allowing God to do with me what He willed...and not what I willed...

Edited December 1, 2011 by dominicansoul

[Nunsense]

I, too, pray for those who are discerning religious life, because there is so much contradictory advice given and so many things to sort through in the discernment process. That's why I think that a lot of discernment needs to be kept private - instead of hanging it all out there for everyone to comment on. Anyone in serious discernment for religious life needs a spiritual director, someone to discuss and discern with. Anything posted here is obviousl going to be coloured by each individual's own experiences and their own hopes, dreams, aspirations and opinions.

I am one of those who used to post it all, and I have seen some others do that here as well. Now, even though I might get excited about certain things that happen, I try to keep most things private, between me and my SD and the community where I am discerning - just because I know that too much input from others might actually cause me confusion when I go through those periods of self-doubt that we all have.

This is a great place for mutual support and prayers, but sometimes I think we do tend to give too much advice here as well (myself included). I barely know what is best for me, let alone for someone else, and when I read different opinions or different points of view, I realise that the answer isn't going to come from a public forum, but from my own connection with God, and the guidance I get from those whose role it is.

BarbTherese has always been very good about this advice and I think it's good to remember it... get an SD and ask your questions of that person. As far as the forum goes with regard to discernment, chat and be supportive and give opinions, but remember that no one of us 'knows' what is right for another.

My prayers to all whether they are discerning, were discerning, used to discern, or would never even think of discerning religious life! Sanctity IS the goal no matter what our state in life. Let's be good to each other.

PS - one of the best pieces of advice in this thread is from Sr Marie, who suggested that our questions be directed to the community where we hope to enter. This is how a relationship is formed.... and apart from my SD, they are who has helped me the most.

Edited December 1, 2011 by nunsense

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Hello! I was once in a religious community and I left during novitiate. I needed to leave because of a mental health problem. Religious life is beautiful, but not easy, and I can speak from personal experience that it can be stressful and that this can make underlying problems worse. I just want to share this perspective. When religious communities are not able to accept a person due to some problems that person might have, or just because they discern that the person is not indeed called to that community- it is good to see the will of God expressing itself in what they are saying. There is a docility to the Holy Spirit that is needed in the Christian life, and many times this may mean that we must deny our own will in order to do the Will of God. Leaving religious life was the most difficult thing I have ever been through, and God's Grace saw me through this trial. Not everyone is called to religious life. This is not an easy thing for me to accept in my own life and I am not trying to say that will be easy for anyone else, but we need to trust in the Goodness of God, especially when things are not going our way.