Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324096183' post='2352579'] Yeah. Although he seems like a good guy, his family's biggest concentration seems to lie in "evangelizing" the Philippines...how curious. I was fairly certain they were already aware of Jesus. [/quote] they are good people. good for them for wanting to spread their faith and in their mind help people get to heaven. it may not be the right way but they are doing the best they can from what they know. Unless you personally tried to convert them and they ignored you I don't think you can judge them. not saying we should just let fundies alone cuz they are trying to do whats right, but you cant judge them and say they're bad people. if you dont want him to be a fundie go convert him.YOU JUST WATCH HE'S GONNA BEAT BRADY AND THEM PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BigJon16 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324096397' post='2352581'] how is that not readable? it made perfect sense [/quote] Because it wasn't written in binary code... Translation for arfink: 01000010 01100101 01100011 01100001 01110101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01110011 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101001 01110100 01110100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00101110 00101110 00101110 01001001 00100000 01100111 01101111 01110100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100011 01101011 00101100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01100100 01100100 01111001 00101110 Edited December 17, 2011 by BigJon16
arfink Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324096397' post='2352581'] how is that not readable? it made perfect sense [/quote] Lack of proper punctuation and capitalization do come to mind. Keep in mind that on the Internet many people will suffer an involuntary TL;DR reaction when confronted by a wall of text, especially one that does not contain visual indicators of sentence or paragraph structure. This includes visual indicators like punctuation and capitalization.
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1324097026' post='2352596'] Lack of proper punctuation and capitalization do come to mind. Keep in mind that on the Internet many people will suffer an involuntary TL;DR reaction when confronted by a wall of text, especially one that does not contain visual indicators of sentence or paragraph structure. This includes visual indicators like punctuation and capitalization. [/quote] I guess I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I have a couple words that aren't capitalized, but for the most part I capitalized the beginnings of my sentences, proper nouns and words, etc. and I had the proper punctuation too. Unless I'm a total moron
Vincent Vega Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324096693' post='2352587'] they are good people. good for them for wanting to spread their faith and in their mind help people get to heaven. it may not be the right way but they are doing the best they can from what they know. Unless you personally tried to convert them and they ignored you I don't think you can judge them. not saying we should just let fundies alone cuz they are trying to do whats right, but you cant judge them and say they're bad people. if you dont want him to be a fundie go convert him. YOU JUST WATCH HE'S GONNA BEAT BRADY AND THEM PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/quote] The between the lines is that the Philippines is a predominantly Catholic country. They are trying to "evangelize" Catholics so as to save them from their idolatry and Mary-worshipping ways.
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324099315' post='2352635'] The between the lines is that the Philippines is a predominantly Catholic country. They are trying to "evangelize" Catholics so as to save them from their idolatry and Mary-worshipping ways. [/quote] I think I knew that.... anyway my point is, lets say for the sake of argument that actually Protestantism is the true religion. Would you be an intrinsically evil person because you are attempting to convert Protestants away from the true faith to your Catholic faith, which you in good faith honestly believe to be the true one? If not, how can you say the same about protestants? I'm not denying that their religion is wrong. I just think judging them is wrong.
Vincent Vega Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324099672' post='2352639'] I think I knew that.... anyway my point is, lets say for the sake of argument that actually Protestantism is the true religion. Would you be an intrinsically evil person because you are attempting to convert Protestants away from the true faith to your Catholic faith, which you in good faith honestly believe to be the true one? If not, how can you say the same about protestants? I'm not denying that their religion is wrong. I just think judging them is wrong. [/quote] If Protestantism is the true religion, then I fully accept that in that case, I should go to hell. I am not invincibly ignorant of Protestantism. I have learned of it, considered it, and judged it to not be the Church of Jesus Christ. I reject it with full knowledge of it and of my free volition. It would, therefore, be on my head if I were to lead people away from it, much if I were trying to convert Protestants (or Catholics) to Islam, or to Atheism, etc. Edited December 17, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324100792' post='2352655'] If Protestantism is the true religion, then I fully accept that in that case, I should go to hell. I am not invincibly ignorant of Protestantism. I have learned of it, considered it, and judged it to not be the Church of Jesus Christ. I reject it with full knowledge of it and of my free volition. It would, therefore, be on my head if I were to lead people away from it, much if I were trying to convert Protestants (or Catholics) to Islam, or to Atheism, etc. [/quote] do you in good faith honestly believe Catholicism to be the true religion? If so it cannot be sinful to lead others to it, even if you were leading them away from the "true" religion. same with protestants.
Vincent Vega Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324101049' post='2352659'] do you in good faith honestly believe Catholicism to be the true religion? If so it cannot be sinful to lead others to it, even if you were leading them away from the "true" religion. same with protestants. [/quote] Does this mean that, so long as an Atheist believes "in good faith" that there is no God, it cannot be sinful for him?
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324101277' post='2352662'] Does this mean that, so long as an Atheist believes "in good faith" that there is no God, it cannot be sinful for him? [/quote] hmm.. let me think about that.
Nihil Obstat Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1324097026' post='2352596'] Lack of proper punctuation and capitalization do come to mind. Keep in mind that on the Internet many people will suffer an involuntary TL;DR reaction when confronted by a wall of text, especially one that does not contain visual indicators of sentence or paragraph structure. This includes visual indicators like punctuation and capitalization. [/quote] White space is the best friend of those to whom effective written communication online is important.
Lil'Monster Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Wow this thread is getting to be weirder
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 okay - here's what i think: If you are born and raised an atheist, having been given no reason to suspect that perhaps your parents were wrong, then i fail to see how you can be in a state of sin if you left the catholic church or a christian church to become an athiest then i believe that yes you would be in a state of sin same with protestants. if you leave the catholic church, (assuming certain conditions here, you can't judge everyone's situation) then you would most likely be in sin. if you were brought up protestant though, there cannot be any sin in being protestant! And certainly if you really believe that is the true religion than God can only be pleased with your efforts to convert others to what you believe is the true religion did that make sense?[quote name='Lil'Monster' timestamp='1324101692' post='2352668'] Wow this thread is getting to be weirder [/quote] to be honest i love a good argument
penguin31 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324101779' post='2352669'] okay - here's what i think: If you are born and raised an atheist, having been given no reason to suspect that perhaps your parents were wrong, then i fail to see how you can be in a state of sin if you left the catholic church or a christian church to become an athiest then i believe that yes you would be in a state of sin same with protestants. if you leave the catholic church, (assuming certain conditions here, you can't judge everyone's situation) then you would most likely be in sin. if you were brought up protestant though, there cannot be any sin in being protestant! And certainly if you really believe that is the true religion than God can only be pleased with your efforts to convert others to what you believe is the true religion did that make sense? [/quote] Yes, it did. Particularly when viewed against the Catechism: [quote] 1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts. 1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors. 1037 God predestines [u]no one[/u] to go to hell; for this, a [b]willful turning away [/b]from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance"[/quote] Ultimately, though, [i][b]we don't know. [/b][/i]All we can do is know that ultimately, God will make the right call. That said, one might suspect that Christion *missionaries* would be sufficiently well-versed in theology that they'd at least know OF the Catholic faith Edited December 17, 2011 by penguin31
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='penguin31' timestamp='1324102252' post='2352676'] Yes, it did. Particularly when viewed against the Catechism: Ultimately, though, [i][b]we don't know. [/b][/i]All we can do is know that ultimately, God will make the right call. [/quote] righto! thanks for the catechism quotes.... to much work to actually get it out!
Vincent Vega Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324101779' post='2352669'] okay - here's what i think: If you are born and raised an atheist, having been given no reason to suspect that perhaps your parents were wrong, then i fail to see how you can be in a state of sin if you left the catholic church or a christian church to become an athiest then i believe that yes you would be in a state of sin same with protestants. if you leave the catholic church, (assuming certain conditions here, you can't judge everyone's situation) then you would most likely be in sin. if you were brought up protestant though, there cannot be any sin in being protestant! And certainly if you really believe that is the true religion than God can only be pleased with your efforts to convert others to what you believe is the true religion did that make sense? to be honest i love a good argument [/quote] You're describing invincible ignorance. While I cannot, of course, say with certainty that the Tebows are invincibly ignorant, they certainly have the capability to learn about what Catholicism truly teaches. If they have not done this, the case could be made that they are being willfully ignorant, a scenario which may not bode well for them.
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324103951' post='2352689'] You're describing invincible ignorance. While I cannot, of course, say with certainty that the Tebows are invincibly ignorant, they certainly have the capability to learn about what Catholicism truly teaches. If they have not done this, the case could be made that they are being willfully ignorant, a scenario which may not bode well for them. [/quote] if i am understanding your argument correctly i would be invincibly ignorant if i did not learn everything i could about Mormonism, Protestantism, the Muslims, Hindus, Athiests, etc, etc. Which I certainly have not the time to do while doing God's will in my life right now, namely, getting my school done. For someone to go to that much trouble to learn about a religion i would imagine they would have to be mildly suspicious its the right one. what if they have no idea?
Vincent Vega Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1324104408' post='2352695'] For someone to go to that much trouble to learn about a religion i would imagine they would have to be mildly suspicious its the right one. what if they have no idea? [/quote] Do you have legitimate reason to believe that they have never had the opportunity to learn of the teachings of the Catholic Church?
Little Flower Posted December 17, 2011 Author Posted December 17, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1324104592' post='2352696'] Do you have legitimate reason to believe that they have never had the opportunity to learn of the teachings of the Catholic Church? [/quote] Do you have legitimate reason to believe they have? I don't think you have the right to judge them unless you do. Personally, I'm sure there's many opportunities I've lost to learn about Hinduism or Bhuddism simply because I'm pretty confident I'm already in the right religion and they are crazy wacko religions. If they feel the same way about the Catholic church I can't blame 'em. Especially with what protestants think we're like anyhow im going to bed
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