Dark Night?

[InPersonaChriste]

Hold fast to God! Prayers for you,
I entered a very dark state when I was even younger than you, and I started to rebel against God instead of binding myself to his undying love!

[AnneLine]

Claire,

You've gotten a lot of good advice here.

My two cents.... I would underline that it is important to not trust your feeling in prayer (you can't tell when prayer is 'good' or 'bad' at the time -- and a director can help sort that out). What is important is that you 'show up' even when you don't feel much like it. That is what those who are in love do... they are THERE for the other, even when it is tough. And you are in love with the Other above all other others.....and God is in love with you. It only makes sense that sometimes what happens between the two of you will not be 'felt' as a human feels things.... but it could be differently experienced from God's side. And God knows love when He sees it!

It always helps me to remember that St. Teresa had times when she shook her hour glass to make the time go faster..... and that she said she found it hard to pray without a book or an image to keep her grounded. And that St. Therese said there were times when she realized that because she felt nothing, ALL of it was for baby Jesus, and she could envision herself as just one of the baby's many toys, and she was waiting there for Him to pick up when He was ready.

It does help if you have a director - but as we all know, that can be a tough thing to find. God knows what you need to grow closer to Him in love.... as Him to send the right one!

While you can't use you feelings as a guide for whether or not your prayer was of value (St. Teresa and St. Ignatius agree on this one....), St. Ignatius suggest that after your prayer periods, you 'examine' how it went with the eye to whether or not you want to make any changes for future prayer sessions from your end. That doesn't mean we manipulate the experience, tell God what to do, nor to ask for 'warm fuzzy' feelings.... but just to get a sense of whether you were present and whether you want to change anything from your end the next time around.

Prayer is a meeting of souls.... and sometimes we just aren't all there from our end.... and other days, we are 'on' -- humans are like that in prayer and in every day life, too! But we want to try to bring the best we can to the session... and then humbly admit that it is our poor best! And that we will try better tomorrow!

One director I had said to think of planned prayer time the way we anticpate and look back on a really special, anticpated phone call. (Odd image, this, but it works) He said that if you are expecting to talk with someone special, you look forward to it ahead of time.... you try to be as 'present during it as possible, and as soon as it is over, you go over what just happened in your mind so as to not forget it. He was right... the image works. Then he went on to say that this is how spending some time during the day in 'remote preparation for prayer' and taking the time to make a 'review of prayer' fit into your prayer life. THAT makes sense!

If you are feeling great dryness or 'desolation' (feeling like you are stuck on an ocean and there is no wind to fill your sails...) preparing for and reviewing prayer can really help. They are helpful if you are on your own, and it is especially helpful if you are working with a director. Sometimes when your prayer feel blah, you realize after thinking about it there are there things you didn't notice at first that you realize you want to take forward into your day, or insights that you want to remember... write those down. Did it feel like you were communing with a rock (we all have THOSE days)... if so, note that, thank God for the time you were able to spend with Him even though it didn't 'feel' great.... you know by faith it IS great to spend time with Him, right? Acknowleding that truth honors that reality if nothing else seemed to happen.

I'll echo the suggestion about journaling, because it helps one to see if there are any changes or if perhaps something else in your world is impacting your prayer. Certainly can happen with interactions with other people....why not in our prayer life too? If you find that you are having problems on a regular basis, think about if the time and place was a good one for prayer.... noisy? distracted? too hungry? too full? If so, think about 'switching' that up a bit - different time of day, place, a snack, adding or removing a favorite image... or including earplugs! Sometimes people also find it helpful to slowly pray over a poem, or to do some simple artwork during prayertime and talk to God about those..... or to go for a long walk with God during your prayer time. It's a RELATIONSHIP and people do stuff with those they love... and it doesn't have to be the same thing every day.

Hope some of those ideas are helpful!

Edited December 27, 2011 by AnneLine

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1325005733' post='2358104']

Hope some of those ideas are helpful!
[/quote]
Yes, yes, yes! Thank you!!

[Strictlyinkblot]

I would just like to add that when I got through dry times and even dark times I find using something physical helps to ground me. I find holding my rosary even if I can't pray, looking at images and the cross help me. Its a concrete reminder of prayer. I love to look at icons of St. Michael and St. Raphael. I also love the image of Divine Mercy.

As the others have said being faithful to prayer keeps you going. Personally (and this is only my own experience) in the hard times I have to fall back on the formal prayers, like the rosary and the Divine Office and force myself through it, often repeating the prayers because I'm not sure if I've said them or not. I usually find mental prayer is beyond me at those times, though I always try to keep a dialogue with God.

Be careful of taking on too much. The Divine Office, while beautiful is a labour, albeit of love. There is a danger of taking on too much and then becoming frustrated when you can't get through it and giving up. I remember being deeply shocked many years ago when my spiritual director said I was praying too much and I should stop trying to say so many rosaries. What she meant was it was better to say one with love every day then moan and groan my way through three or four in one day and then say nothing for several days because it was all too much.

Hope it makes sense. Prayers

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

It has gotten worse. It has gotten to the point where it is not just spiritual dryness, I can't find God, I feel like He left me, and I don't understand... Help...

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1325172650' post='2359296']
It has gotten worse. It has gotten to the point where it is not just spiritual dryness, I can't find God, I feel like He left me, and I don't understand... Help...
[/quote]

He is there whether you sense Him or not. Try to just pray as usual (remembering that prayer is putting yourself in His presence - you don't need to wear yourself out with lots of words) and accept it for what it is. Why not start with that lovely quote 'Lord I believe; help my unbelief' then leave the rest to Him.

[Feankie]

FCC, I don't for a moment think God has abadoned you. Wht would be the purpose? Jesus said He would never leave us or forsake us. Could it be you'ree "trying" so hard to hear/find Him or looking in the wrong places that you've missed Him altogether? He lften comes to us in the most simple of things - everyday people and occurences that we'd normally overlook or dismiss as being banal or unimportant. Practice finding God in all of creation, in little things and big things. He's waiting for you!

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1325173014' post='2359300']
He is there whether you sense Him or not. Try to just pray as usual (remembering that prayer is putting yourself in His presence - you don't need to wear yourself out with lots of words) and accept it for what it is. Why not start with that lovely quote 'Lord I believe; help my unbelief' then leave the rest to Him.
[/quote]

I've found that when I'm having trouble in prayer, the best prayers tend to be those with no words! I just sit in God's presence. In the quiet, God makes himself known.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Very weird... It got worse a few days ago, but after I did my office this morning, it's like I started to feel better. I'm not totally back to normal yet, but God is starting to touch me again. I needed this to learn a lesson. I took my feelings of fruitfulness of prayer for granted, I wasn't constantly thinking about God before this happened. I thought about Him a lot, but not as much as I did when I felt He had departed from me. I need to focus on Him and relish the feelings I get from prayer because you never know when they will be taken away from you.

Edited December 29, 2011 by FutureCarmeliteClaire

[marigold]

I'm glad you're feeling better Claire. A lot of excellent advice here - just catching up on it all! The thing I always, always, always remind myself of is my spiritual father's remark that "95% of life in the Church is just showing up." Still praying for you.

[Byzantine]

Hope you don't mind, but I thought it would be easiest for me to slip my comments in here and there. I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread. So, the advice of a 17-year-old to a 13-year-old:

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1324869421' post='2357501']
Okay, so I thought maybe my VSrs could help me with this one, I wasn't sure where an appropriate place to post this would be... So, when in doubt, use VS!

So... Back to my original problem.
I think I may be entering my "Dark Night of the Soul"... Yes, I know you guys are going to laugh at me because I'm 13, but I still need help regardless. I feel as though when I pray there is barely or no fruit at all from it. It's like I don't feel like I get anything anymore... It makes me scared and distraught. I cling to God. I do not feel as though God has left me as many of the saints have described their "Dark Night", but I have spiritual dryness.
[color=#ff0000]Unless I'm mistaken, the Desert Fathers had a word for this. Acedia, I think, although I don't think it was sinful in their usage (I can be completely off on this one, though). Anyway, if you're talking about the "blah" feeling, the Desert is quite clear: persevere, stay the course. I think it was the "Monk of the Eastern Church" who wrote [i]On the Invocation of the Name of Jesus [/i](although I could be off on the author; may be someone way more ancient) who said things like this can happen to remind us that when we do feel something it is a gift of God. Something also about avoiding seeking the feeling as an end in itself, I think.[/color]

I've tried mixing up my night prayers and morning prayers and doing different ones, but it only helped for a little while.
[color=#ff0000]I strongly recommend against this. The key is perseverance. Stay the course. Trust me; if every time I felt the desire to not say the Third Hour (not sure what your equivalent is post-VII) in the morning and Compline at night, I could see myself by now having gotten to the point of not praying at all. Try slowing down, if applicable. It seems like it's helping me. Persevere. I know [i]The Crisis[/i] wasn't written for Catholic teenagers trying to pray, but the opening might as well have been. "These are the times that try men's souls." Read the first few lines, subbing in Catholic vocal where applicable.[/color]

Yes, this is recent. It just started very recently, and I am just scared. Really scared. My little brother got me a breviary for Christmas, as I have been doing Compline on my own and I wanted to start doing the full Liturgy of the Hours, but I am scared that if I do that I will feel the same spiritual dryness, and I just don't know what to do.
[color=#ff0000]I echo whoever said that you need to get a spiritual director. Ideally, the priest you go to Confession too most often (I've found that having one priest hear my confession is a massive help. Because of this, he can say things like "you're weak in this area, so..."[/color]

Would adding more prayers be good?
[color=#ff0000]I asked my priest about this once. While this was because of something different (if I remember correctly), his response was that it would/might just increase my scrupulosity or something. So, I would discuss this with your spiritual director.[/color]

I don't want to back down on my prayers because during this time I need to cling to God, but I just don't know what to do.
[color=#ff0000]Don't back down, but I wouldn't try stepping up the set prayers without the advice of a spiritual director.[/color]
[/quote]

Hmm... Red text seems rather harsh... Next time I'll try something a little more pleasant... Hope this helps!

Edited December 30, 2011 by Byzantine

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1325210491' post='2359712']
Hope you don't mind, but I thought it would be easiest for me to slip my comments in here and there. I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread. So, the advice of a 17-year-old to a 13-year-old:



Hmm... Red text seems rather harsh... Next time I'll try something a little more pleasant... Hope this helps!
[/quote]

Thanks bunches!

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1325196257' post='2359598']
Very weird... It got worse a few days ago, but after I did my office this morning, it's like I started to feel better. I'm not totally back to normal yet, but God is starting to touch me again. I needed this to learn a lesson. I took my feelings of fruitfulness of prayer for granted, I wasn't constantly thinking about God before this happened. I thought about Him a lot, but not as much as I did when I felt He had departed from me. I need to focus on Him and relish the feelings I get from prayer because you never know when they will be taken away from you.
[/quote]

This is a consolation from God who never permits more than we can bear. In times of consolation and relief, for me it's an opportune time to ask God to help me bear any future cross better than the last.
I am so happy that the struggle and fear you were experiencing has diminished and that the sun is shining again for you. It has been a frightening experience and your previous post had me a bit concerned. It is wonderful too, and your response to God's Grace, that you have reflected on your experience and arrived at some conclusions and resolutions to take forward with you on your journey with God.
God bless and hold you close!

[MarysLittleFlower]

FutureCarmeliteClaire, from your description is sounds more like the "Dark night of the senses", but I can't know for sure, since I'm not a priest or your spiritual director it might help you to read the book by St John of the Cross - "dark night of the soul". It helps to distinguish between the two. Do you have a spiritual director or a good priest you could speak to? That can help a lot.

Whatever this is, I believe you it's very painful for you to go through. Don't omit any of the things you do: prayer, Sacraments, etc.. do them more, not less. If the things of the world don't bring any consolation, then it's a dark night (of the senses, or of the soul). If they do, then it's more of our fault that's what St John said. From your description it sounds like you are seeking God.

The dark night of the senses is spiritual dryness. Dark night of the soul is when the person is almost at perfection, but they go through a final trial where they feel God Himself has abandoned them - like how Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me..". Very few go through this one though. It's incredibly painful, but - dark night of the senses is also very hard to go through.

So this sounds like the dark night of the senses, but don't be scared you'll come out of this with greater love for God. Just keep praying.. St Therese went through great spiritual dryness, probably the dark night of the soul, but she said - she cares more about giving Jesus consolation, than receiving it. It could be good to: for example, go visit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament with the intention of consoling Him only, not caring at all how you feel, or if you feel anything. Even if all you feel is emptiness, still trusting and praying. Love for God does not consist in feelings many Saints have said this. Love for God is loving Him when it's hard, not when we have consolations, which are gifts. Seek to just give to Him, not receive. Don't dwell on your feelings or lack of them.

Don't measure 'good fruit' from your prayers, by how you feel, either.. the 'good fruit' would show later, for now, just keep praying and persevering

God bless!!

[MarysLittleFlower]

[i]If all the efforts seem fruitless...[/i]
[i]“[/i][color="navy"]You make me think of a little child that is learning to stand but does not know how to walk. In his desire to reach to top of the stairs to find his mother, he lifts his little foot to climb the first step. It is all in vain, and at each renewed effort he falls.” “Well, be like that little child. Always keep lifting your foot to climb the ladder of holiness, and do not imagine that you can mount even the first step. All God asks of you is good will. From the top of the ladder, He looks lovingly upon you, and soon, touched by your fruitful efforts, He will Himself come down, and taking you in His arms, will carry you to His Kingdom never again to leave Him. But should you cease to raise your foot, you will be left for long on the earth.” [/color]
(St Therese)

I love this quote by St Padre Pio: "In darkness, at times of tribulation and distress of the spirit, Jesus is with you. In such a state you see nothing but darkness, but I can assure you on God's behalf that the light of the Lord is all around you and pervades your spirit. . .You see yourself forsaken and I assure you that Jesus is holding you tighter than ever to His divine Heart." St. Padre Pio