MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338399551' post='2437844'] Technically I guess you are, but to be open about something implies it's wrong in the first place. Your question is a bit of a non sequitur. [/quote] I am not sure if it is a non sweywuwewqwer. I am asking if you KNOW I am living an open heterosexual lifestyle. I am wondering if you do not know, or cannot tell; short of me proclaiming it, you will never know. But I do see you point about those who are all "FABULOUS" and offer details of the wonderfulness of their homosex actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338399331' post='2437840'] I guess my endgame question is... "short of me coming out and telling everyone of my CURRENT erotic homosexual escapades, how do you know I am living an open homosexual life?" [/quote] I think that was the root of the whole dont ask, dont tell policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338399657' post='2437847'] Does anyone want to address the distinctions I [color=#282828]made between "ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual," "open ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual," and "active ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual?"[/color] [/quote] you are all business... that's what i like about you. scandalous, i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338399743' post='2437850'] you are all business... that's what i like about you. scandalous, i know. [/quote] It just see[color=#282828]ms like these conversations always wind up in a se[/color][color=#282828]mantical-[/color][color=#282828]m[/color][color=#282828]ias[/color][color=#282828]ma, and these 3 ter[/color][color=#282828]ms appear to be at the center of it. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338399657' post='2437847'] Does anyone want to address the distinctions I [color=#282828]made between "ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual," "open ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual," and "active ho[/color][color=#282828]mosexual?"[/color] [/quote]I'll respond to this below, though I did pretty much agree to those terms before. [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338399616' post='2437846'] ok, i can dig that... but what if I shut up about it, because it IS a cross... what then? Is admitting one has SSA, without delving into whether or not I ever acted on these disordered desires, is that acceptable? [/quote]I think that the answer to this is complicated. A few pages back I mentioned two of my own friends who have SSA and have spoken about it publicly, but who (so far as I know) lead chaste lives. Both of them have made sure to say as much. A person who says they suffer from SSA and tries to lead a chaste life is different from a person who suffers from SSA and acts upon it. I think it can cause a certain sort of scandal to say that you are homosexual but not to say more (I realize why people would not desire to say anything extra, but that doesn't mean it's the best course of action if you don't want to cause scandal). If you come out as a homosexual, then you should say something so that you won't cause scandal. I realize there is a certain motivation, but SSA is a much more private matter than it's become today. The same goes for chastity in general. Telling people that you're unchaste is not something that you should do lightly, to just anyone, or nonchalantly. It's a matter to take seriously and to talk about privately. It sounds like a person who wears their SSA on their sleeve is no different than a person who confides in their closest friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 ok, so I suffer from SSA. (let's say) I will tell you this if you ask. I will most likely tell you this if you don't ask. I will not tell you if I have ever been engaged in homosexual sex. That is none of your business. what then? Sorry for the shotgun approach here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338399718' post='2437848'] I am not sure if it is a non sweywuwewqwer. I am asking if you KNOW I am living an open heterosexual lifestyle. I am wondering if you do not know, or cannot tell; short of me proclaiming it, you will never know. But I do see you point about those who are all "FABULOUS" and offer details of the wonderfulness of their homosex actions. [/quote]The presumption is that your lifestyle is in accord with good reason and faith until we hear otherwise. Otherwise I might as well assume you're a murderer or an adulterer, even though the presumption should be that you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338400209' post='2437853'] ok, so I suffer from SSA. (let's say) I will tell you this if you ask. I will most likely tell you this if you don't ask. I will not tell you if I have ever been engaged in homosexual sex. That is none of your business. what then? Sorry for the shotgun approach here... [/quote]My inclination is to say that you're treating SSA like a disease (less likely), a matter of personal preference (a little more likely), or a deeper part of your person than even your language or thoughts might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338400181' post='2437852'] A person who says they suffer from SSA and tries to lead a chaste life is different from a person who suffers from SSA and acts upon it. I think it can cause a certain sort of scandal to say that you are homosexual but not to say more (I realize why people would not desire to say anything extra, but that doesn't mean it's the best course of action if you don't want to cause scandal). If you come out as a homosexual, then you should say something so that you won't cause scandal. [/quote] What scandal is caused? Are we to assume all gay people are a bunch of sex-crazed perverts? Do we offer the same negative assumptions to our straight friends? Fact is that it's no one else's business who or what you decide to have sex with. [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338400209' post='2437853'] ok, so I suffer from SSA... [/quote] Screenshotted. Thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338400493' post='2437856'] What scandal is caused? Are we to assume all gay people are a bunch of sex-crazed perverts? Do we offer the same negative assumptions to our straight friends? Fact is that it's no one else's business who or what you decide to have sex with.[/quote]I'm sure you say that with caveats. At times it is other people's business. If you were to have sex with your ex girlfriend, would your fiancee care? If you have sex with your sister, would your family care? In both of those cases another party not only has the right to know whom you've had sex with, but also to dole out a particular form of punishment. If you have sex with a minor, the police have the right to know and arrest you. It's very imprecise to say that it affects no one else. In the case of homosexuality, the affect might be more indirect, but can you positively say it's not there at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338399551' post='2437844'] ...to be open about something implies it's wrong in the first place. [/quote] I am open about my love for Entenmann's chocolate donuts. Doesn't mean that I'm admitting something that's wrong. I'm just informing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338400685' post='2437857'] I'm sure you say that with caveats. At times it is other people's business. If you were to have sex with your ex girlfriend, would your fiancee care? If you have sex with your sister, would your family care? In both of those cases another party not only has the right to know whom you've had sex with, but also to dole out a particular form of punishment. If you have sex with a minor, the police have the right to know and arrest you. It's very imprecise to say that it affects no one else. In the case of homosexuality, the affect might be more indirect, but can you positively say it's not there at all? [/quote] Fair enough. I'll make a revision: It is not the business of a stranger on a message board, in a church pew or in a corporate setting, who or what other strangers choose to have sex with, with the usual caveats pertaining to criminality. It is also not the business of a stranger in the government who or what other strangers, both in and out of the government, choose to have sex with, with the usual caveats pertaining to criminality. Finally, in my view, it is not the business of the leadership of the armed forces who or what their soldiers choose to have sex with, with the usual caveats pertaining to criminality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 What do you think sex is for, if only a matter between two people (of course, accepting the criminality caveats you've included)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338401095' post='2437862'] What do you think sex is for, if only a matter between two people (of course, accepting the criminality caveats you've included)? [/quote] Doesn't matter what I think the purpose of sex is. It also doesn't matter what the U.S. government says the purpose of sex is, particularly as it pertains to military recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338401148' post='2437863'] Doesn't matter what I think the purpose of sex is. It also doesn't matter what the U.S. government says the purpose of sex is, particularly as it pertains to military recruitment. [/quote]Why doesn't the purpose matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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