Hhs Upheld By Supreme Court

[Papist]

Does this not set a bad precedent re Government meddling in commerce. Obamacare requires all to have insurance, right? And I am sure it has to be Government approved insurance. Now we have the Supreme Court okaying this, what is next? Perhaps all homeowners must have Government approved energy efficient windows in their home. If not, you are fined.

[homeschoolmom]

I'm curious about those who would opt out of the Western medical system.... I'm sure the Amish are exempt, for example... But what about Christian Scientists? Or what about anyone who is just more "wholistic" in their world view who would never go to a doctor? Why in the world should they have to buy into a healthcare system they don't ever intend to use?

[MissyP89]

Someone on my Facebook just made an analogy:

She suggests that asking everyone to pay into Obamacare via the tax is like trash collection. People may want to opt out of having someone get rid of their trash for them, but doing so can be unsanitary and forces everyone else to pay more. So by asking everyone to pay a little, even those who choose not to participate, everyone is cared for and society is better as a whole.

I understand this is a pro-"big government" statement, but she seems reasonable to me. Thoughts, guys?

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1340924429' post='2450161']
Does this not set a bad precedent re Government meddling in commerce. Obamacare requires all to have insurance, right? And I am sure it has to be Government approved insurance. Now we have the Supreme Court okaying this, what is next? Perhaps all homeowners must have Government approved energy efficient windows in their home. If not, you are fined.
[/quote]

It seems to me that the Act barely made it out alive, with a bunch of qualifications to its implementation. I'm not trying to defend the Act, but the fact that the court probably won't okay much more than the kind of government influence that the Act implies. I thought it was interesting how much Roberts talked about how this only worked because it wasn't a true penalty, because if it even started acting like a true penalty it would be completely unconstitutional. He specifically mentioned a few ways that the IRS couldn't go about enforcing the collection of the tax. So really, the court tried to take as much teeth out of the Act as they could.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340926996' post='2450185']
Someone on my Facebook just made an analogy:

She suggests that asking everyone to pay into Obamacare via the tax is like trash collection. People may want to opt out of having someone get rid of their trash for them, but doing so can be unsanitary and forces everyone else to pay more. So by asking everyone to pay a little, even those who choose not to participate, everyone is cared for and society is better as a whole.

I understand this is a pro-"big government" statement, but she seems reasonable to me. Thoughts, guys?
[/quote]

I kind of like this analogy.

I like the idea of having some kind of universal healthcare, because I think it's important that everyone have access to at least basic, affordable medical care. If we pay taxes for education, for public works, for fire departments and police departments...I'm not sure why [i]basic [/i]healthcare is that different.

[MissyP89]

Right ... I think it was mentioned before that universal healthcare is a "Christian" thing to do.

I think my problem with it is the inability to opt out of the services you don't want (birth control, etc.).

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340926996' post='2450185']
Someone on my Facebook just made an analogy:

She suggests that asking everyone to pay into Obamacare via the tax is like trash collection. People may want to opt out of having someone get rid of their trash for them, but doing so can be unsanitary and forces everyone else to pay more. So by asking everyone to pay a little, even those who choose not to participate, everyone is cared for and society is better as a whole.

I understand this is a pro-"big government" statement, but she seems reasonable to me. Thoughts, guys?
[/quote]

And that's what healthcare will be...trash.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340926996' post='2450185']
Someone on my Facebook just made an analogy:

She suggests that asking everyone to pay into Obamacare via the tax is like trash collection. People may want to opt out of having someone get rid of their trash for them, but doing so can be unsanitary and forces everyone else to pay more. So by asking everyone to pay a little, even those who choose not to participate, everyone is cared for and society is better as a whole.

I understand this is a pro-"big government" statement, but she seems reasonable to me. Thoughts, guys?
[/quote]Great in theory....

What is the limit to basic care? Dialysis or kidney transplant? Chemo or cyber knife for tumors? Who determines how much is spent for someone like Terry Schiavo and for how long? Can a dad donate a kidney to his kid even though that will put him at a higher medical risk?

The plan doesn't limit coverage to basic for some and more if you can afford premiums. It will be determined by equatable government rules with no room for judgement. Since its being fair to society, then it will not want to pay for defective babies discovered via amniocentesis. It will be your duty not to burden society with your personal choice.

Be careful what you wish for. You often get more than what you thought of.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1340928436' post='2450194']
And that's what healthcare will be...trash.
[/quote]

Talk to me. Tell me [i]why [/i]you think the way you do. I'm trying to learn.

Edited June 29, 2012 by MissyP89

[Anomaly]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340930805' post='2450213']


Talk to me. Tell me [i]why [/i]you think the way you do. I'm trying to learn.
[/quote]I love that! Do a google search for pros on obamacare as well as cons on obamacare. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Neither side are monsters or idiots but both sides will have extremists that blindly support their side and stupidly denigrate the other. You'll figure it out.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1340931586' post='2450215']
I love that! Do a google search for pros on obamacare as well as cons on obamacare. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Neither side are monsters or idiots but both sides will have extremists that blindly support their side and stupidly denigrate the other. You'll figure it out.
[/quote]

Well where's the fun in that, when there are people right here that you can have an actual forum-conversation with to find that out.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1340931586' post='2450215']
I love that! Do a google search for pros on obamacare as well as cons on obamacare. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Neither side are monsters or idiots but both sides will have extremists that blindly support their side and stupidly denigrate the other. You'll figure it out.
[/quote]

Sorry, but in the wilderness of the internet with a variety of sketchy sources and polarized opinions, I much prefer talking with someone whose thoughts I respect -- Papist is a personal friend, and I trust him.

Don't worry, I [i]do[/i] know how to read and am doing a lot of it. I like to supplement with opinions from real people on all sides. It helps me to better formulate my own thoughts. There's a reason I call myself both independent and moderate.

Edited June 29, 2012 by MissyP89

[MissScripture]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340926996' post='2450185']
Someone on my Facebook just made an analogy:

She suggests that asking everyone to pay into Obamacare via the tax is like trash collection. People may want to opt out of having someone get rid of their trash for them, but doing so can be unsanitary and forces everyone else to pay more. So by asking everyone to pay a little, even those who choose not to participate, everyone is cared for and society is better as a whole.

I understand this is a pro-"big government" statement, but she seems reasonable to me. Thoughts, guys?
[/quote]
Well, for one thing, there are plenty of people who don't have anyone else deal with their trash for them, and don't have to pay anything to anyone, because they take care of it themselves.

[inunionwithrome]

.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1340924429' post='2450161']
Does this not set a bad precedent re Government meddling in commerce. Obamacare requires all to have insurance, right? And I am sure it has to be Government approved insurance. Now we have the Supreme Court okaying this, what is next? Perhaps all homeowners must have Government approved energy efficient windows in their home. If not, you are fined.
[/quote]

This is EXACTLY how it works; the most terrifying phrase in any language is "we are from the government and we are here to help you"...

[Winchester]

[img]http://www.anus.com/etc/texas/texas_secede_bumper_sticker.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1340924429' post='2450161']
Does this not set a bad precedent re Government meddling in commerce. Obamacare requires all to have insurance, right? And I am sure it has to be Government approved insurance. Now we have the Supreme Court okaying this, what is next? Perhaps all homeowners must have Government approved energy efficient windows in their home. If not, you are fined.
[/quote]
1942. Wickard vs. Filburn. Ship has sailed.

[Groo the Wanderer]

sieg heil!

the trains will run on time again....

[tinytherese]

All this talk of politics and trash reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer runs for Sanitation Commissioner of Springfield.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myixDpnw_2E&list=PL1E3ADB37E9F2130C&index=33&feature=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myixDpnw_2E&list=PL1E3ADB37E9F2130C&index=33&feature=plpp_video[/url]

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1340930805' post='2450213']
Talk to me. Tell me [i]why [/i]you think the way you do. I'm trying to learn.
[/quote]

[left][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][color=#333333]Whenever systems are being controlled by the government's than money and politics, issues will soon come up in universal health care. Rules will be placed on the doctors whether or not if they are able to perform expensive procedures/treatments on patients because of our debt issue. If doctors are limited to performing expensive [/color][/font][/left]
[left][color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]procedures/treatments [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]then patients will not be getting the best care as they can receive. I believe this would also have a very bad impact on the patient-doctor relationship. Also, this lack of freedom would deter many good men and women from becoming doctors, nurses, etc. [/font][/color]According to the Doctors Company survey, 60% of them believe that Obamacare will have a negative impact on overall patient care, [url="http://www.thedoctors.com/ecm/groups/public/@tdc/@web/documents/web_content/con_id_004676.pdf"]http://www.thedoctor...n_id_004676.pdf[/url][/left]

Edited June 29, 2012 by Papist